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Speaker question - becomes harsh at high volume

Beachboydw

Beachboydw

Member
I have ADS L 730 speakers, Thorens TD 160 TT, Fisher 500b receiver (fully restored) and a Nagoka MP 110 cart.

No matter what receiver/speaker combination I have, when I turn up the volume loudly, like over 50%, the vocals lose their quality. They become harsh. Even with the Fisher. Below about 50% there's texture, high, lows,and mids. Above 50% it's like the vocals become all treble or something.

I don't know if this happens with most systems when they get into the higher volume areas, or if it's just me. Anyone?
 
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It sounds as though you are playing them beyond their limits and they are starting to distort. This will often sound harsh. Be careful, continuing to push drivers past their comfort zones could result in permanent damage.

It could also be that your amp/amps are running out of steam at 50% and higher. This may introduce distortion/brightness. Maybe a more powerful amp/receiver would help.

My last idea would be the crossovers. Have the been recapped? If not, maybe the old capacitors are no longer up to spec and are introducing distortion.

Hope you can resolve this. Best of luck!:thmbsp:
 
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Beachboydw said:
I have ADS L 730 speakers, Thorens TD 160 TT, Fisher 500b receiver (fully restored) and a Nagoka MP 110 cart.

No matter what receiver/speaker combination I have, when I turn up the volume loudly, like over 50%, the vocals lose their quality. They become harsh. Even with the Fisher. Below about 50% there's texture, high, lows,and mids. Above 50% it's like the vocals become all treble or something.

I don't know if this happens with most systems when they get into the higher volume areas, or if it's just me. Anyone?
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I'm kinda lost, you state your system and then say no matter what speaker reciever combo, you still have the issue, but yet your titel is with a question about your speakers.

So we assum the table and cart are remaining the same?

I could bable on but more info would be needed for me.
 
A lot of the mylar dome tweeters become harsh at high volumes. Like in the Polks from the 80's. Recapping with a small resistor might help.
 
Beachboydw said:
No matter what receiver/speaker combination I have, when I turn up the volume loudly, like over 50%, the vocals lose their quality. They become harsh.
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You're clipping the amp.

The gain relationship of most systems is such that you attain full output between 11:00 and 1:00 depending on the source. It's not that 12:00 is half power. It's all the way there - or beyond. That receiver has a total of 65 watts music power which is most likely the old IHF standard. Call it 50 watts total continuous.
 
E-Stat said:
You're clipping the amp.

The gain relationship of most systems is such that you attain full output between 11:00 and 1:00 depending on the source. It's not that 12:00 is half power. It's all the way there - or beyond. That receiver has a total of 65 watts music power which is most likely the old IHF standard. Call it 50 watts total continuous.
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Looks like 6-4 ohm, 100-175w speakers.

But I still don't get the what ever speaker/reciever comment.
 
E-Stat said:
I'm guessing he is referring to the position of the volume control and regardless of which speakers are used with that low powered receiver.
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I agree he is clipping with those speakers and amp setup and very early on the volume dial.

Those speakers can eat that poor little amp if he likes loud music, or the tweeter is going to give first.

Should we place bets...:D
 
Amplifiers can be "overdriven" even at 50% of the volume pot. If the input signal is much louder than the average expected by the amplifier designer, the power amplifier section can reach full output even at 30, 50 or 60% of the volume knob.
 
4-2-7 said:
Those speakers can eat that poor little amp if he likes loud music, or the tweeter is going to give first.
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Nice speakers - used to sell them back in the 70s. But 20-25W only takes you so far with any acoustic suspension speaker. :)
 
As said above, you probably have one or more of two problems.

First, it's not that hard to clip moderate power amps. It takes double the amp power to get a mere 3 dB louder.

Second, all speakers have some limit where they distort, break up, burn up or otherwise give up the ghost. No idea if that's your problem or not. I have a small set of Polks in the lab that do just fine at normal low levels, but the tweeters just sound dreadful up loud.

There can also be issues like bad crossover caps or inductors that saturate, but chances of those are lower. You might also have feedback into the turntable.

Position of the volume control means nothing. How loud are you trying to go- room shaking loud movie theater loud or something less? How big is the room?
 
Beach, you have done run out of power and are clipping the amp. You don't have a lot of power to mess with there if you want to get loud. Don't get me wrong, with that setup you can play pretty stinking loud, but you are going past that point.

When things sound "crunchy", things are going wrong and somethings like speakers, are likely to "give." Keep in mind that buying power to play louder doesn't work all that entirely well, since you would need 10 times the power to double the sound output. Doubling the power would only make it somewhat noticeably louder. You could buy larger and more efficient speakers to play louder, but you would have to like the way they sounded, especially at high levels.

Personally, I'd just turn the volume down a bit. Your system appears to be well matched and must sound pretty nice within it's performance envelope.
 
Definitely sounds like amp distortion. Tube amps can handle distortion much more smoothly than solid state. Where a tube amp would compress the sound at higher volumes a SS amp simply clips the signal harshly. Bet the first thing you tried when you noticed the loss of low end at high volume was turning up the bass. In turn this would cause even more clipping since a boost of only 3 db. would require twice the power from the amp so now clipping is doubled.
Set your bass controls flat, straight up high noon, loudness off. If you get the volume you need but need more bass just get yourself a decent sub.
 
DavidR623 said:
A lot of the mylar dome tweeters become harsh at high volumes. Like in the Polks from the 80's. Recapping with a small resistor might help.
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This is happening to my Polk 7b speaker when I turn up the volume. Do you think I need to recap that one speaker it only happens to one side.
 
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