Speakers not working when I plug additional pair in pre-out.

[4ey]

Hi! I have a rather weird problem which really puzzles me. I use one Denon DRA-625RA with a pair of speakers which I love (not important for the purpose of my question but they are ADS L520 if I must say) This leads to immense pleasure when listening to almost all kinds of music.
Now, that particular Denon, aside from being great, has a pre-out as one can expect. When I unplug the bridges of the preout, after the receiver is turned off, and then plug some powered speakers in the preout, (genelecs) and turn the Denon back on, not only the Genelecs don't work, but also the ADS!?! Restarted the sound source, still the same. Reversed the process to the starting point and the ADS start singing again!?!?
I have no idea how this even works, but if anyone has any ideas about this somewhat preout related issue, please let me know.
Thank you, as always your help is much appreciated in our household!
#preout #preoutissues #preoutproblems

 

[swechsler]

In order to continue to use the built-in power amp in the receiver while also using active speakers, you'll need to use a pair of Y cables. Connect one end of the Y to the PRE OUT, a second to the MAIN IN, and the last to the Genelecs (You'll want a Y with two males and a female; connect the female to an RCA cable, which would then go to the Genelec). Repeat for the other channel.

Regarding why the Genelecs don't work, what model do you have? Can you take a photo of you how have them connected?

 

[UncleAng]

When you unplug the bridges it disconnects the amp section from the pre-amp section in your Denon; hence no amp.
Try using the tape out for the Genelacs.

 

[4ey]

In order to continue to use the built-in power amp in the receiver while also using active speakers, you'll need to use a pair of Y cables. Connect one end of the Y to the PRE OUT, a second to the MAIN IN, and the last to the Genelecs (You'll want a Y with two males and a female; connect the female to an RCA cable, which would then go to the Genelec). Repeat for the other channel.

Regarding why the Genelecs don't work, what model do you have? Can you take a photo of you how have them connected?

Thanks! That explains a lot. I also may have new problem with the genelecs - 4020c they worked fine until yesterday with anothe receiver, Denon AVR-2801. I will go plug them back in that one to see if there is an issue with them, even though I did not hear any problem and they weren't forced or anything. They certainly power. I will have to get back at you about letting you know if they work if that may be of interest.
The first two pictures are from the AVR-2801 - where they were plugged until yesterday. The third picture is the back of the DRA-625RA.

 

[4ey]

When you unplug the bridges it disconnects the amp section from the pre-amp section in your Denon; hence no amp.
Try using the tape out for the Genelacs.

Thank you! This sound like an idea, although the manual of the Genelecs (4020c) says I shouldn't use anything but the preout as far as I recall. I will have to check that one back. The y adapters though, which @swechsler mentioned would resolve the issue with the ADS not playing. I will now go do some testing to figure out if there isn't any unknown failure of the Genelecs.

 

[swechsler]

Just out of curiousity, when you had the Genelecs working with your Denon AVR, how did you have the RCA cables connected (that's more what I was looking for when I asked you to show a photo of the connections)? For those of you unfamiliar with Genelecs, they are studio monitors with balanced (+/-/gnd) connections (the 4020c has a Phoenix connector block). I used to have an older pair of Genelecs with XLR inputs, and I used them with an active unbalanced to balanced adapter, but they should work fine with a passive adapter as well.

 

[4ey]

Just out of curiousity, when you had the Genelecs working with your Denon AVR, how did you have the RCA cables connected (that's more what I was looking for when I asked you to show a photo of the connections)? For those of you unfamiliar with Genelecs, they are studio monitors with balanced (+/-/gnd) connections (the 4020c has a Phoenix connector block). I used to have an older pair of Genelecs with XLR inputs, and I used them with an active unbalanced to balanced adapter, but they should work fine with a passive adapter as well.

It's this mod adapter that I used. (the Genelecs don't seem to work now, no idea what happened. They power and sound like the controler needs cleanign when I turn the sound knob, but no music coming out from both tweeters or mid-bass. Did not have any indication that this has happened and when. I don't have a clue what to do about it!)
I found it on Bonanza and until yesterday it always worked for both speakers. Good. No issues with them until now. Never pushed them hard.

 

[rothwellaudio]

Try using the tape out for the Genelacs.

I wouldn't advise that. The only control you would have over the volume would be the tiny little preset pot on the back of the Genelecs.

 

[swechsler]

It's this mod adapter that I used.

Interesting. Normally you combine the center with + and the shield with -/gnd. This should still work, although it will invert phase (which has been debated as to whether that will be audible).

 

[JoeESP9]

Absolute phase is audible. However, it's easier to hear on certain instruments. Check out Clark Johnsen, The Wood Effect. It's available at that place named after the river.

 

[4ey]

Interesting. Normally you combine the center with + and the shield with -/gnd. This should still work, although it will invert phase (which has been debated as to whether that will be audible).

It's possible. I never tried them any other way, since they sounded good enough.... to me. If I want to connect them differently I wouldn't know where to begin - how, with what, where to source it. If you have some ideas, let me know. Thanks!

 

[WillVT]

Thanks! That explains a lot. I also may have new problem with the genelecs - 4020c they worked fine until yesterday with anothe receiver, Denon AVR-2801. I will go plug them back in that one to see if there is an issue with them, even though I did not hear any problem and they weren't forced or anything. They certainly power. I will have to get back at you about letting you know if they work if that may be of interest.
The first two pictures are from the AVR-2801 - where they were plugged until yesterday. The third picture is the back of the DRA-625RA.

This may not be relevant, but it looks like you have two sets of speaker wires on each terminal. I thought at first maybe you had the ADS bi-wired, but the L520's don't have that capability. What's going on there?

 

[4ey]

This may not be relevant, but it looks like you have two sets of speaker wires on each terminal. I thought at first maybe you had the ADS bi-wired, but the L520's don't have that capability. What's going on there?

These are for two sets of vintage(?) monitors that I particularly like - some Monitor Audio MA-301. I have the ADS connected to the other Denon.

 

[WillVT]

These are for two sets of vintage(?) monitors that I particularly like - some Monitor Audio MA-301. I have the ADS connected to the other Denon.

I would think if you wanted two pairs of speakers on that AVR, you should use Front A and Front B, instead of doubling up on B like you have. It also looks like you have something plugged into the surround channels on the left side of the pic?

 

[4ey]

I would think if you wanted two pairs of speakers on that AVR, you should use Front A and Front B, instead of doubling up on B like you have. It also looks like you have something plugged into the surround channels on the left side of the pic?

Yes, you are right, but I was thinking of using the other front for another, third pair at a point in time, so hence one (pair) of the Monitors are wired on the surrounds.
That particular model Denon has 90wpc on all channels if I'm not mistaken.