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Speaking of spiders....

DonQuixote99

DonQuixote99

just give me some truth
I have a local guy who's going to rebuild a couple of woofers for me (the 8" EPI type, from some Genesis 3s). Anyway, he wants to go a step up in stiffness than OEM for the spiders. Says if I'm going to keep the speakers (which I may, depends on how good I can get them), the added durability will be worth it. I worry about losing a bit of the low end, but he says with the passive radiators on the G3s, that won't be an issue.

Would appreciate any opinions on this idea....
 
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I'd stay original, If the originals lasted 25 or so years then I don't think durability is really an issue. They'll probably last longer if you don't abuse them with bassy rap music
 
In theory, you will loose some bass extension. Spiders contribute roughly 75% of the woofer's compliance properties. With the PR you may not 'hear' any difference but it may be measurable.

I'd stay with the same stiffness as original.
 
I abuse them with the Dark Side of the Moon heartbeat sequence, played loud just to see how much they can take. Maybe stiffer is a good idea if I'm going to do that sort of thing....
 
DonQuixote99 said:
I abuse them with the Dark Side of the Moon heartbeat sequence, played loud just to see how much they can take. Maybe stiffer is a good idea if I'm going to do that sort of thing....
Click to expand...

I suppose stiffer is the way to go if abuse is 'in the cards'. :-)
 
I would stay with the original spider, which is probably a typical "C" type. Changing spider WILL afect the mechanical QMS......
DC
 
It'll not only affect the bass extension, it'll also screw up the midbass... too stuff of a spider can cause the midbass to become "boomy". Trust me, I've seen the aftermath. You want the softest possible spider and surround on those. Just make SURE the cabinet is properly air-sealed (caulk, gasket tape, etc) when you re-install it.

Genesis already used a slightly stiffer spider than EPI; you DEFINITELY DO NOT want to go stiffer than that...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
What Gordon said :thmbsp:......I've also heard what a stiffer spider can do to mid-bass and yes, make sure those cabs are air-tight!!!
 
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I replaced the spiders on both active & passive drivers in Genesis II with excellent results (the originals were warped and floppy to the point of being useless), but I used a pretty soft one recommended by midwest speaker. I had leaks at the input plate, btw. I thought I had ruined them at first, but after a couple of hours I had deep bass in spades. If anything tuning seems to have ended up a little low on the passives.
 
Original it is.

The fellow's rationale didn't make a ton of sense to me, and I suspect an agenda of just trying to make sure the repaired speakers didn't 'come back' with issues right away.

Leaks at the input plate, dumptruck? Until yesterday I didn't realize that plate wasn't glued-down. I did some other resealing on these, but I'll have to make sure of them too.
 
Sealing is ultra important. I've had pretty good luck with EPI cabinets. My worst? A pair of Infinity Qb I bought new years ago. They couldn't have been more than 3-4 years old and started developing leaks. I ended up having to remove the drivers and stuffing, seal ALL the seams inside the cabinet, around the crossover ,etc. ,then make sure and seal all the drivers. Leaky cabinet = horrible totally muddy bass...
 
Got the rebuilt woofers and PRs installed, and damn do these fellows have a nice low end now! Both are now sealed-in with the finest 'rubber' foam weatherstrip. As for spider stiffness, my tech said when he researched the specs, the OEM were of the stiffness he was contemplating. He just though they'd be looser because of the condition mine were in.

I'm not quite as thrilled with the top end at this point. First, is sealing so critical with the mids and tweets? There are old gaskets still in use in the top compartment (seperate from the LFs), that maybe could stand replacing.

Second, recapping is likely in order.

Third, I may just want more dispersal. The top end is suffering in comparison to some Avid-101's, that augment dispersal with extra side-firing tweets. So while these are sort of intended as my 'reference conventional 3-ways,' they might be e-Waved some day....
 

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I would certainly look into getting those old electrolytic caps replaced with some nice Dayton 5% or better yet 1% types. That should certainly open up the top end! That particular combination of the Phillips 5060 SQ 5" cone and inverted dome tweeter should sound very good- once everything is replaced/ improved.

You have some really nice speakers- good luck improving them!!
DC
 
If you are including the upper midrange in "top end", I dunno because I've never heard that mid driver, but I think those tweeters are way better than the Avid's. New caps certainly wouldn't hurt.
 
Roger. New caps real soon now, for sure. "Opened-up" is what the top end needs. Everyone says I should expect great things from those drivers--if I get them working on a par with the LF, these speakers will truly be amazing.
 
OK, why do the Genesis speakers hiss? They have background noise, a high white-noise hiss, not audible through the Avids. It relates to program material; noise goes away in the momentary gap between CD tracks, but it seems constant when a program is playing, though of course more audible in quiet passages. I suppose it might be that the Avid tweets just don't go high enough to play a noise that's always there, but that doesn't seem right to me--the noise doesn't seem that high, nor the Avids that high frequency challenged.

A crossover issue?
 
Not sure why this wasn't mentioned, but stiffer spider also means you'll drive the speakers harder to achieve the same "level" of performance. This in turn means generating more heat in the VC, which you really want to avoid at all costs.

Total agreement on keeping it original, not just for acoustic reasons, but for mechanical reasons.
 
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