Zack Sainz
Active Member
Thanks! I was already starting to notice some differences, but that sibilance was tough to overlook.
Stanton 681eee Upgrade from D400
- Thread starter Zack Sainz
- Start date
johnjhazel
PhxJohn
I'm not trying to be unpleasant about it but I always wondered what was so special about it. I had one but I dared not try it as I knew I would be underwhelmed. So I sold it.
The originals, if they are not used beyond their useful life or damaged, are classics in their own right, yet not for everyone.
I like them both for their vintage character and their collective virtue.
The copies, when they work, should be fine for doing the job and sometimes they might mimick the sound of originals, or even add their own particular flavor.
But I seldom read consistently good reviews on them.
Apart from Wolfie (or other folks in the trade) who's almost always raving about their supposed superiority over originals, I read mixed comments.
Ranging from complaints about poor tracking, incorrect tracking forces, wrongly placed diamonds etc, to compliments regarding their ability to revive vintage pickups and their price.
In other words they're a crapshoot.
I like them both for their vintage character and their collective virtue.
The copies, when they work, should be fine for doing the job and sometimes they might mimick the sound of originals, or even add their own particular flavor.
But I seldom read consistently good reviews on them.
Apart from Wolfie (or other folks in the trade) who's almost always raving about their supposed superiority over originals, I read mixed comments.
Ranging from complaints about poor tracking, incorrect tracking forces, wrongly placed diamonds etc, to compliments regarding their ability to revive vintage pickups and their price.
In other words they're a crapshoot.
Pickering D350 stylus (the original) is a plain bonded 0.7mil conical, sporting a similarly constructed cantilever.
And sounds wonderful.
If yours was an original you did well to sell it, so someone else can have it and appreciate it.
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johnjhazel
PhxJohn
And so does my PM4212DE sound wonderful. I used original Pickering needles....48 years ago. I don't understand why it has to be OEM vs aftermarket.
Both have their merits. Such as aftermarkets being readily available.
Both have their merits. Such as aftermarkets being readily available.
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Funny....
NOS original Stanton/Pickering styli ARE a crapshoot. Oh, I’m sorry. They are 100% guaranteed to work. My bad!
I’ve got probably 20-24 Pfanstiehl or EVG styli I’ve purchased over the last 5 years. I’ve had to return exactly 1 due to quality issues. I guess the sellers just like me better than other customers... But I don’t consider VTF differences to be a deal breaker or a defect; unless of course the suspension fails before enough VTF can be applied.
Very few carts do I not have an original stylus for. So I make comparisons of aftermarket units to the originals. I don’t make a recommendation in the vacuum of no comparison.
But, admittedly, I’m no purist. If it works well and sounds good, I’ll recommend it.
If an original is very expensive and like hens teeth to find, I’ll look for a replacement. A daily driver stylus, if you will. Some I’ve found worthy replacements for; Some not.
In the NOT category is the Nagatron 360CE.
In the YES category is the S917VL for the S5000 Empire EDR.9.
So I’m not in the “trade”, either. If that’s your assumption, it’s another wrong one.
Just want to close out the year on a firm footing.
Just got a Swiss nude XV15 D400 Stylus. EVG.
I only have 35 minutes on it. But at this point, I’m loving it!
It is incredibly quiet in the groove compared to my very low hour real genuine Pickering D400 stylus. Bass compares right there with the D400. But mids and treble on the nude are much more detailed and extended. Fact is, this compares right there with the D1200 stylus.
I did carefully file off the sharp corners on the nose plastic of the grip; it freed up the brush to work perfectly.
For $40, a superb stylus!
I’m listening to an old LP now on the ATCO label. Bent Fabric. Alley Cat was their hit. This is a noisy album using a regular 3x7 elliptical or a 0.6 or 0.7 mil conical. It’s nice and quiet with this stylus. Dynamic and detailed.
So I’m really pleased with this purchase. It delivers the goods!
I only have 35 minutes on it. But at this point, I’m loving it!
It is incredibly quiet in the groove compared to my very low hour real genuine Pickering D400 stylus. Bass compares right there with the D400. But mids and treble on the nude are much more detailed and extended. Fact is, this compares right there with the D1200 stylus.
I did carefully file off the sharp corners on the nose plastic of the grip; it freed up the brush to work perfectly.
For $40, a superb stylus!
I’m listening to an old LP now on the ATCO label. Bent Fabric. Alley Cat was their hit. This is a noisy album using a regular 3x7 elliptical or a 0.6 or 0.7 mil conical. It’s nice and quiet with this stylus. Dynamic and detailed.
So I’m really pleased with this purchase. It delivers the goods!
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Wolfie, no need to get defensive.
I don't judge anyone for selling a product or being a reseller.
That's what people do.
Regarding your comment of original (NOS) styli also being a crapsoot, my experience doesn't agree with you.
In the years of collecting NOS styli (50+ items), mostly Pickering and Shure, I only had one that was not performing as excpected.
And the weird issue with that particular one was not a hardened suspension which I usually read about from other folks.
That one actually had a suspension that was too compliant, to the point it almost touched the record when at maximum VTF.
Otherwise it sounded fine.
I still have it but since I like to use styli at near max VTF I don't use it that often.
Yea, but I see this as a pretty offensive comment. You meant it that way. I took it that way. And it’s offensive, and was meant that way, for those “in the trade” also. Now you’re saying I shouldn’t take it that way? Ok. My bad...
And I’m not in the “trade”.
But it hardly squares with this comment:
As I said, I have original (purchased NOS) for nearly every cartridge I have. So when I compare an aftermarket stylus, it’s to an original. But I prefer to find a daily driver stylus; and not everyone can find or wants to afford a NOS stylus for vintage carts. If and when I find a worthy, affordable aftermarket stylus, I don’t mind mentioning it. I’m not a purist.
You took it the wrong way.
Obviously I have nothing negative to say about anyone that's simply an honest reseller.
So no need to defend that.
If you get defensive, it's probably because It gets to you that I question your ravings about copies sounding superior to originals.
It is a different thing claiming you ain't no 'purist', looking only for NOS and another to suggest that copies are consistently superior.
Obviously I have nothing negative to say about anyone that's simply an honest reseller.
So no need to defend that.
If you get defensive, it's probably because It gets to you that I question your ravings about copies sounding superior to originals.
It is a different thing claiming you ain't no 'purist', looking only for NOS and another to suggest that copies are consistently superior.
I took it exactly how you said it, exactly how you wrote it twice, and exactly how you meant it.
You keep pushing the idea that I’m a dealer/seller/retailer/distributor of styli. I’ve never sold a needle in my entire life! I have no skin in the game.
This is the third time I’ve said this: I have NOS styli to compare the aftermarket styli to. So if I said it (aftermarket) equals the sound of, or exceeds some performance of, or it is a good substitute for, or even superior to the original, then that’s exactly what I meant.
And what “gets me” is your intentional provocation by not reading what I’ve already written, or reading something that isn’t there, or making an attempt to twist the meaning of what I’ve written to suit your own views.
But I guess only your views have merit in here. Sorry to be “defensive”. Perhaps I misunderstood....
I remember you were saying that you were selling them, but I might be wrong.
In regards to the NOS vs copies I hope you are right and they are better or equal, because we've run out of brand new originals in many classic cartridges.
Zack Sainz
Active Member
I’m back guys!
The replacement 4606 is incredible. I just popped it on today balanced at 1.56g. Everything is there, better soundstage, more detail, tighter bass, lower noise floor. Fam, the dragon is real.
I’m so grateful to be a part of this amazing community. Thanks for all your help!
I’ll report back with more detail soon, I don’t want to wake the neighbors.
Happy Listenings!
The replacement 4606 is incredible. I just popped it on today balanced at 1.56g. Everything is there, better soundstage, more detail, tighter bass, lower noise floor. Fam, the dragon is real.
I’m so grateful to be a part of this amazing community. Thanks for all your help!
I’ll report back with more detail soon, I don’t want to wake the neighbors.
Happy Listenings!
johnjhazel
PhxJohn
Wonderful. Glad it worked out !
Zack Sainz
Active Member
I’m so glad!
Gary was very easy to work with.
Now, should I get a back up 4606-DEX?????