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Starting a C27 preamp fix

rowingcoach

Active Member
I got a nice Mcintosh c27 for my tube preamp! Everything works, and it sounds lovely... BUT there is a constant HISS/Static in the right channel. It is very low, but noticeable on quiet passages of music. Even when no audio is playing the hiss is there. It does not change volume as the volume is turned up. It only goes away when I turn the balance knob totally left channel. The left channel is totally silent! Very nice.

I have done the usual Deoxit to the spinning parts inside the preamp. No change at all. It must be in the signal path. The Power amp has no issues alone. The hiss is on ALL the inputs, Aux 1 and 2, phono and Tuner. I did not see if it was also on the Tape inputs.

(edit. I just checked and with Tape 1 or 2 pressed in the HIss is still present)

I seems to be a cap or transistor.

SO. I took it upon myself to fix it. I first did the Google method of seeing if anyone else has ever recapped or replaced parts inside a c27. Nope. Nobody. I searched high and low.

I then looked at the Service PDF and found the part numbers for the Transistors. Nobody else has identified the Transistors for that model. I did a check to see if ANYONE has found a replacement for those transistors. Nobody has.

SO.

I am starting a C27 thread. I know the C27 shares a similar layout to the c26, but they are not 100% the same.

In the next few days I will be posting Original part numbers, cap values, and taking feedback on what parts would be the best "fit" and replacement.
 
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I can not get at my schematics right now but I do believe the C 27 has Mac's standard variable loudness circuit. That would make my prime suspect the summation Signetics 5534 op amp.

These are now discontinued and out of stock most every where. There is much out there about ic "rolling" and I have played with some in my MCD restorations. Because of oscillation concerns none that I would dare post as a for sure drop in replacement.
 
the board is very basic looking. It does have a variable loudness feature. It seems to be working fine. Once I set the volume I want I can move the variable loudness and it works. The hiss is at the same level no matter the loudness set to Flat or anywhere else.
 
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Here is the list of caps that are I think are aluminum electrolytic (tall cylinder) type. I have read that that box caps are usually reliable. I will start with these...

These are the values listed on the schematic. I have not checked the actual installed caps on my c27 to see if they matched. I will be checking this list against recap lists for the c26 to see if the values are the same. I doubt it though, the layouts appear different AND the technology is about 10+ years different.

This list is of exact matches for Capasitance, Voltage rating and temp rating for the original caps. They are also listed as "Audio grade" by Mouser. I suspect this list to be 100% accurate and valid "matches" as better than the originals from 1978/83

C107 47uf 16v 647-UFG1C470MEM
C105 100uf 16v 647-UFW1C101MDD
c106 100uf 16v 647-UFW1C101MDD
c108 47uf 16v 647-UFG1C470MEM
C113 22uf 35v 647-USW1V220MDD
c114 22uf 35v 647-USW1V220MDD
c119 10uf 50v 647-UKL1H100MDDANATD
c120 10uf 50v 647-UKL1H100MDDANATD
c149 1uf 50v 647-UMW1H010MDD
c150 1uf 50v 647-UMW1H010MDD
c203 100uf 50v 105 degree 647-UKT1H101MPD
c202 100uf 50v 105 degree 647-UKT1H101MPD
c205 1uf 50v 647-UMW1H010MDD

Here is a list of the transistors. As you can see pretty much all the signal path transistors are of two type!! However, I can not locate this transistor on any cross reference chart or Google, OR in another thread here on AK. :(

This group appears to be together on the board
q101 part number 132-176
q102 part number 132-176
q103 part number 132-175
q104 part number 132-175
q105 part number 132-175
q106 part number 132-175

This groups is also together
q107 part number 132-175 512-BC550CTA (suggested by member "Grateful")
q108 part number 132-175
q109 part number 132-176
q110 part number 132-176

This group is also together
q111 part number 132-175
q112 part number 132-175
q113 part number 132-175
q114 part number 132-175
q115 part number 132-175
q116 part number 132-175

This group is together, 201 is largest.
q201 Part number 132-028 Power Supply
q202 Part number 132-175
 
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I would suspect the semiconductors long before the caps to cause hiss. If I remember correctly there was also a service update to address RF noise issues.
 
I would suspect the semiconductors long before the caps to cause hiss. If I remember correctly there was also a service update to address RF noise issues.

I found that appended to the last pages of the service manual. Would RF be causing constant low level hiss on one channel only? Wouldn't it do same thing to the other channel?

If anyone has suggestions for those two main transistors that would be wonderful. I have no idea how to start!
 
Is the hiss present on any input? Does volume control effect hiss level? There are no ics in the C27 all discreet transistors.I see you have preanswered my questions. Replace the line section transistors Q113- Q116
 
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I edited my shopping list with "Audio grade" caps of same values from Mouser. All Nicholson caps.

Would this be the best replacement for 175?
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=BC550CTAvirtualkey51210000virtualkey512-BC550CTA

Product Category: Transistors Bipolar - BJT
RoHS: RoHS Compliant Details
Configuration: Single
Transistor Polarity: NPN
Collector- Base Voltage VCBO: 50 V
Collector- Emitter Voltage VCEO Max: 45 V
Emitter- Base Voltage VEBO: 5 V
Collector-Emitter Saturation Voltage: 200 mV
Maximum DC Collector Current: 0.1 A
Gain Bandwidth Product fT: 300 MHz
Maximum Operating Temperature: + 150 C
Mounting Style: Through Hole
Package / Case: TO-92-3 Kinked Lead
Brand: Fairchild Semiconductor
Continuous Collector Current: 0.1 A
DC Collector/Base Gain hfe Min: 110
DC Current Gain hFE Max: 800
Maximum Power Dissipation: 0.5 W
Minimum Operating Temperature: - 65 C
Packaging: Ammo Pack
Series: BC550
Factory Pack Quantity: 2000
Unit Weight: 0.008466 oz
 
I updated the list with what i just ordered from Mouser. I narrowed the search to pick audio quality caps, matching the UF and Volt values and size. I picked Nicholson brand only for the caps and Fairchild for the Transistors.

Everything came in under $9!

I will post the results of the recap/changing the transistors.

The only things I did not order a replacement for were the PNP transistors and the two power supply ones.

While I was checking the Volt values I noticed that one of the 10uf caps has been replaced with a 450v one! it is three times the size of the other channel's. I wonder if that is the problem? Or maybe the mirror image cap went bad as well. Hmm.
 
Update:

Installed the new Caps and transistors. Everything works perfectly now. No more hiss. Silence!

I noticed that the previous owner must have had it serviced. The caps were all missmatched. They had the right UF values, but were different sizes and volt ratings. Everything is now matched.
 
I am back!

So I have noticed that when I play my C27 at high volumes the front lights seem to pulse with the bass. I have my Preamp and Main amp plugged into different sockets. Filter Caps? Main caps?

Anyone have numbers for the C27/C28 main caps? All the caps on my main board are new.
 
Sounds like your AC line voltage is sagging with the amps draw.....even if the are different outlets they could easily be on the same circuit.

I believe the lamps are run direct off a transformer winding.

Had a client with a C29 and MC2205 back in the day with a waterbed heater, 4 foot wide fish aquarium, and both the LR and 2 bedroom lights all on the same circuit as their amp......brought over a variac to demonstrate why they needed to hire a electrician to install a dedicated circuit for their stereo.
 
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