Hello, I have been reading threads here for a few months and I finally decided to join. I would like to relate to you a turntable experience I have had lately, and it has not been a good one to say the least. I was in one of my favorite record stores a while ago looking for a used Turntable. The owner did not seem to have any good used turntables that day. He had a Technics belt drive table, but I thought this might be a step down from what I have right now. I am using a Technics SL-Q30 with an Audio-Technica at92eCD and it sounds great. I told the dealer that I was looking for a Turntable that would allow me to use standard cartridges instead of P-mount. Normally before I buy anything I read a lot of reviews before I purchase the product. The dealer pointed me towards the Music Hall USB 1 turntable, he told me he thought it would be a good table for me and I could upgrade the table later. I thought to myself, this sounds like a good plan. I always thought Music Hall was a good brand, but this turntable is not good at all. I am very sensitive to pitch veriations, and when I plugged this turntable in, it did not hold it's speed very well at all. I looked up the wow and flutter specs on the table and I found they were less then 0.25 and that as you know is not good. I emailed Roy Hall of Music Hall and I told him that had I known the wow and flutter specs were this high I would not have purchased this Turntable. He told me that I should listen to the Turntable and ignore the specs. I took the Music Hall back to the dealer and he tested it with his strobe disc and he told me he would give me another Music Hall. I thought I would try the turntable again but I got the same results. I let my dealer know this table was doing the same thing and he told me I could bring it back and he would give me my money back. I was excited to hear this, however my kids some how had gotten a hold of the box for the turntable and ruined it, so I am not able to take the turntable back because the dealer told me he needed the turntable back in the box. He told me he would take the turntable back if I could get Roy Hall to give me permission to pack the turntable in another box. I emailed Roy Hall and told him that I was still hearing the wow and flutter from the turntable. He responded back to me and told me that he did not hear any wow and flutter and that he did not have any boxes lying around. Now I am stuck with a big plastic brik of a turntable. I thought that I might purchase one of the higher end Music Hall turntables, but now I am not so sure. I think that even 0.1 wow and flutter is to high. I am not trying to offend those of you who like Music Hall, I just felt Roy Hall did not want to listen to my concerns regarding this turntable. I do not want to purchase one of his higher end tables and have this same issue. Do any of you hav any ideas as to what I can do with this brick? The reviews on Stereo File seem to give this table high praise, but I could not recommend this table to anyone.
Stay away from Music Hall USB 1 turntable.
- Thread starter wlmill
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Bob_in_OKC
Addicted Member
Welcome to AK. Sorry to hear about your troubles. This turntable seems to me to be radically different than Roy Hall's other turntables, which are made in the same factory with Pro-Ject and use parts common to Pro-Ject. This one looks like something that would appear re-badged under various names and would perhaps sell even cheaper than Roy Hall sells it. I wouldn't relate it at all to the other Music Hall turntables. If you're really sensitive to pitch, though, I won't disagree with your reservations about the 0.1% W&F on the other models.
Maron Horonzakz
Well-Known Member
Dont blame Roy Hall.... Blame the kid that destroyed the packing box,,,I had to pay a manufacture 10 bucks to get a new box,,
I'm still storing the large box my 55" LCD TV came in just in case it has a problem under warranty and without the box/packing I'd be up the creek, this is a fairly common practice with electronics and a good number of other items if you want to return them. Music Hall isn't out of line in this regard. If you still have the packing material try to find another box about the same size and list it for sale on CraigsList, AK Barterr Town, Ebay etc. Music Hall along with the other entry level belt drive turntables don't have the best of specs for wow/flutter and speed and your not the first to notice it but it doesn't seem to get a lot of notice by the audio press and when it does they and the mfgs white wash it saying the turntable has PRAT instead. Don't fall for all the exspensive upgrades to try to make the table right, it will be a money pit and that's the way they designed their buisness model and turntable. My advice is to listen to a good quartz direst drive turntable and check the specs for wow/flutter and speed, I'm certain you will hear a big improvement over the Music Hall. As for an affordable direct drive I'd keep an eye open for a Technics SL-1200Mk2 and as far as specs go it doesn't get much better.
First off... welcome to Audio Karma.
Well, I guessed you've learned a hard and bitter lesson about so-called "audiophile" turntables.
1. Audiophiles don't care about specs, they're meaningless. "Just listen to it." Listen indeed. At least you're smart enough to ignore audiophool marketing b*llsh*t and decide with your own ears that what you're hearing is crap. Fact is, specs do matter. Build quality and excellence in design and manufacturing do matter.
2. You need to spend MORE MONEY. That's right, rule number two of a good follow-the-herd audiophile is that more money spent equals better sound.
Ha, ha, ha.... you're not buying it, right? That's right, because you know that audiophile's rule number 1 (specs don't matter) is a lie. So rule number two is a lie and a scam as well. Give yourself some credit for at least being smart.
Fact is, your humble Technics SL-Q30 is probably far better than a lot of the utter crap that's being hawked as "audiophile" turntables on today's market.
Turntables are a tiny niche market nowadays. As a result, cheap and shoddy belt drives predominate, because they're simple and inexpensive to manufacture in low volumes while turning a profit. So buying a 'better model' is not really a solution. You'll just be getting a more finely polished turd.
Better to spend time scouring thrifts and yard sales for high end vintage turntables. Just my opinion.....
Well, I guessed you've learned a hard and bitter lesson about so-called "audiophile" turntables.
1. Audiophiles don't care about specs, they're meaningless. "Just listen to it." Listen indeed. At least you're smart enough to ignore audiophool marketing b*llsh*t and decide with your own ears that what you're hearing is crap. Fact is, specs do matter. Build quality and excellence in design and manufacturing do matter.
2. You need to spend MORE MONEY. That's right, rule number two of a good follow-the-herd audiophile is that more money spent equals better sound.
Ha, ha, ha.... you're not buying it, right? That's right, because you know that audiophile's rule number 1 (specs don't matter) is a lie. So rule number two is a lie and a scam as well. Give yourself some credit for at least being smart.
Fact is, your humble Technics SL-Q30 is probably far better than a lot of the utter crap that's being hawked as "audiophile" turntables on today's market.
Turntables are a tiny niche market nowadays. As a result, cheap and shoddy belt drives predominate, because they're simple and inexpensive to manufacture in low volumes while turning a profit. So buying a 'better model' is not really a solution. You'll just be getting a more finely polished turd.
Better to spend time scouring thrifts and yard sales for high end vintage turntables. Just my opinion.....
Even though this isn't my deal, I am going to blame Roy Hall for future purchases I would have made because sometimes stuff happens, and if a manufacturer has any inclination to keep somebody's business, they go the extra mile and fix something. That's how you keep, and win, business. This could just as easily have been a "Roy Hall's a great guy, he sent me a box to fix a problem I had" post. Too many manufacturers act like they're the only option in town, or that if they make a shoddy product well tough, live with it. Or people give them a pass because they've liked one of their products. Well, I've liked one of his products, a MMF-5.1 but I'm sure not going to recommend it. Not to mention this isn't the first time that I've heard that he's not pleasant to deal with from a customer service standpoint.
Hi Fi is a dwindling hobby- if you want to stay in business, run a business like you want customers.
Great advice from somebody who's never had any experience with a modern audiophile turntable :thmbsp:
Good advice, BUT the OP already owns a quartz locked direct drive, his Technics SL-Q30!
From Vinyl Engine's website:
Uh, yeah.... puts that cheap ass Music Hall to shame.
Not that specs are the final word, but let's face it, shoddily built "audiophile" turntables plagued with wow & flutter and speed stability issues are what they are... cheap junk.
Bob_in_OKC
Addicted Member
Once again, more misinformation, which is so common from you. Show us the "expensive upgrades" for the Music Hall USB-1.
I've read that Roy is perfectly wonderful to deal with if your nom de plume happens to be Sam Tellig.
Absolutely true.
What's with the attitude? Isn't this the "KARMA" website?
I bought a new Technics SL-1200 in 2007, so I most definitely have "experience with a modern audiophile turntable."
Don't let it get to you, cactuscowboy. I've been on the receiving end of similar missives, many of them much less genteel than John's, because I had the temerity to suggest that entry high-end turntables by Music Hall and Pro-Ject had too much wow and flutter to be acceptable for critical listening. Apparently the "golden ears" at the magazines -- the flacks who sing the praises of these products in every review -- are less golden than they would like us to believe.
Bob_in_OKC
Addicted Member
It's a shame the best of both worlds can't be more easily achieved with turntables, but the 1200's specs aren't making it sound better or even as good as a mid-level Music Hall.
