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Steps to better sound.

Sergey Green

Sergey Green

Active Member
Hi folks,

I have Thorens TD-320 ii (TP90 tonearm), fine sounding unit, but I do not want to start messing with it (modifying, etc.) while not having anything to play records on.

So my question would be - what would be the steps to better sound (in your opinion)?

*) Another Thorens td 320, break it apart, and see what I can add to it to make it better than what I have already? Safest path methinks.

*) Another Thorens model (TD-147, TD-160 for example), try it out, and see what other modifications I can make to it for comparison.

*) Get already restored and modified TD-160, (there is plenty of those on eBay and they do look real nice. I would not have a slightest clue to what they sound like, or if it's worth the price in the first place).

*) Try out another model altogether (Rega Planar, AudioTechnica, Technics, etc.)

What would be your suggestions?
 
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spark1 said:
Proper set up and isolation.

Cartridge upgrade.

Upgrade phono amp.

Recrd cleaner.
Click to expand...

I think it is setup properly. For cartridges I have ZYX Yatra, Van Den Hul MC One (I swap the headshells), and AudioTechnica ML440a. Nelson Pass Xono (PS, Pre and Phono separates, F5t amp), Project record cleaner. That is not the problem. What should I do to have a better TT. That is, everywhere I read people praise TD 320, but It can't be the best, not even THAT good, but there are certainly ways to tune it (or take another one) to be better than what it is. Power supply, damping, funny feet under it, or is it what it is? I mean, won't be better than how it was designed. Has anyone done anything to their Thorens?
 
It is a nice Thorens model and pretty well up the ranks (although they could have slapped a better tonearm on it). Forget the power supply, feet and damping. That's horse feathers. What do you find unsatisfactory?

BTW: By the specs I glimpsed at, the ZYX is a rather obvious mismatch for the TP-90's 17g effective mass and so is the VDH (they actually make it very clear). I'd not be surprised if that tonearm just smuthers them.

The ML440a is border line with too low RF. Maybe you need a better matched cart... Better yet - a different tonearm. How about looking for a nice SME 3009?
 
It may just be that you aren’t getting synergy in your system. The challenge is finding where you need to change. The easiest place to start is the cartridge/stylus. The thing about upgrades is that you need to set a starting point (in this case, likely your Thorens) and go from there. This is why many hardcore audio guys have multiple systems. It makes it easier to identify the issues by swapping things around. I have a tendency of trying anything I get that I like in one of my systems, and if I like it there, it goes into one of my two main systems. It reduces the number of times I’m messing with them. This is happening less and less now.
 
For many years, I accepted mediocre sound because I hadn’t discovered vintage audio. The thought was you got yourself a better amp/component/speakers and bobs your uncle!

But it doesn’t work that way. The components have to match well together. So in your case the chain would be turntable>Cartridge>stylus>phono preamp>preamplifier>amplifier>speakers

If you are happy with how it sounds through a different input component like your CD player, then you need to focus in between the turntable and the preamp. Something needs optimizing here.

I have compared Pink Floyd The Wall between vinyl and cd with a skeptic in my critical listening room and he was sold!
 
Sergey Green said:
I have Thorens TD-320 ii (TP90 tonearm), fine sounding unit, but I do not want to start messing with it (modifying, etc.) while not having anything to play records on.

So my question would be - what would be the steps to better sound (in your opinion)?

*) Another Thorens td 320, break it apart, and see what I can add to it to make it better than what I have already? Safest path methinks.

*) Another Thorens model (TD-147, TD-160 for example), try it out, and see what other modifications I can make to it for comparison.

*) Get already restored and modified TD-160, (there is plenty of those on eBay and they do look real nice. I would not have a slightest clue to what they sound like, or if it's worth the price in the first place).

*) Try out another model altogether (Rega Planar, AudioTechnica, Technics, etc.)

What would be your suggestions?
Click to expand...

TD320 is nice, for sure. You contemplate seeking an improvement with the likes of a TD160 and later modding. And that could be great too. But, for already modded 160s, I doubt you could be sure of what you'd be getting from feePay. Perhaps the likes of a 160-Super from the likes of Vinyl-nirvana woud be a safer route to an already-modded 160. A TD150 from the same source or a stock TD125 (with the likes of a BlackWidow or a Jelco 750) from any source could also be great options. A modified AR from V-n (or Morin?) or similarly highly-reputed source would also be absolutely great. And all these suspended belt-drivers would be outstanding with details and nuances.

If you'd prefer to sacrifice a small bit of the details and nuances for the increased dynamism, slam, and excitement of an idler, then the likes of an idling Dual or Lenco could be also considered.

Lots of other options out there.

All the best in your quest.
 
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Andre Garcia said:
And the room.
AG.
Click to expand...

YES! The room! How could I forget that!

I’m not heavily into room theory, but I’ve experience Bose 8.2s in four houses. And I’ve heard the differences. And I’ve seen what someone who is paying attention to the room can do, and it is tremendous! I’ve heard $150 used Klipsch Tangent T200s sound amazing when there was no compromise in the wall treatment.
 
Room treatment should be at the top of anyone’s list who is serious about the sound of there system and it doesn’t have to cost an arm and a leg to get it right either .

Audiofreak71
 
Sergey Green said:
I think it is setup properly. For cartridges I have ZYX Yatra, Van Den Hul MC One (I swap the headshells), and AudioTechnica ML440a. Nelson Pass Xono (PS, Pre and Phono separates, F5t amp), Project record cleaner.
Click to expand...
If you really like the TD-320 II, get a better arm. Your setups weak link as I see it is your Thorens arm and it doesn't match your cartridges well to boot.

You might read online that your table is well liked, but take that with a grain of salt. That might be the best table they or yourself ever had, that's a reference point. There are many many better tables, arms, cartridges and staging in this world. As we build a very good playback system we then start looking at the quality of the records we buy. A record has a grate deal to do with the SQ of playback so we try to buy the best.
 
Bit surprised at the lack of love for the TP90 here. Personally I was delighted when it came out as I considered it to be the first decent tonearm Thorens had come up with in a long while!

To the OP - yours is a bit of a broad question! What's the rest of your system and what sort of improvements are you looking for?
 
The questions I ask is first what do I want to improve? Secondly, what type of turntable drive architecture do I want? Suspended, high mass non suspended, low mass non suspended, idler, or direct drive? Do I want an arm package with the table, or do I want to select my own arm. What arm do I want, and what table best supports it? What cartridge will I be using with that arm?

I recently bought my reference table, its a current generation Sota Cosmos. If doing a suspended belt drive table, the Sotas are very well done. My choice of arm is a SME V.

Other tables that have interested me are the Well Tempered Reference, Oracle, VPI TNT series, Teres, Merrill Audio, Nottingham, Basis, Amazon, and Transrotor...to name a few. Its more about the execution of the design and how the issues of analog playback are attacked by the designer. That is why the Sota is my first, choice, and the Well Tempered would be my second. But the WT is an oddity, and not for everyone.

Good luck with your analog journey. Your Thorens looks to be a nice table, I suspect you can make incremental improvements, but its my opinion that having a fundamentally different design and perspective on vinyl playback will give you an alternate sound that you can enjoy in contrast to what you currently have.

Cheers
Mister Pig
 
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