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streamer/dac

J

johnwe

New Member
What's a good device, potentially used, to add to my system to get streaming at good to great quality?

I have an Apple TV and a Sonos port currently that are ok, but I'm curious if there's something of higher quality. I want it to work with Apple Music, if it can work with other music streaming services too that's good.
 
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Currently, no streamers work with apple music. For the best streaming fidelity with Apple Music, you will have to use either a iPad, iPhone or Mac OS computer. I'm using an iPad as my streamer, wired straight to my DAC via USB. I had been using Apple TV to stream from my iPhone, but I believe Apple TV is somewhat limited in the resolution it delivers and you don't get the full benefit of hi-res audio.
 
benricci said:
Why does no one ever tell us what their budget is?
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I would consider spending up to approx $1k if going up to this price range will make an audible improvement from the Sonos port.

Right now I am experimenting with 2 setups- one with a 7 channel Marantz that has bluetooth and in my video av. It's easy to connect with airplay and sounds ok.

The other system includes a Willsenton tube amp, and I'm experimenting with McIntosh C28/M113 + Sonos Port- sounds pretty good. Nice bass and full sound.

I might consider a Tidal account if audio quality warrants it, but I want to maximize my use of Apple Music too.

and I'm a little naive about modern hifi- hoping to learn more. I don't really understand DAC vs streamer and my modern Marantz.
 
If you have the latest Apple TV module it will give you full res audio. You can sure har the difference in sound quality as the Apple products get replaced with newer updated equipment, My old 10 X phone does sound near as god as my latest iMac or the previous iPad pro . The original 24 inch i Mac and the 10 X phone sound about the same, which is not great. Its the same with Blue tooth. If you are not using the latest version of 5 then you are easily missing out as 5 has twice the capacity of the 4 series blue tooth. I image there will be a 6 version and a new Apple TV module soon too. Maybe this fall. That seems when everything that is new is released by Apple. I wish the new Studio and 27" display were more econoomical. Maybe they will introduce a new iMac 27 inch to fill the gap between the 24 inch and the Studio.
 
What is wrong with the Sonos connection that you are trying to improve?

I don't have Sonos so can't establish whether this is a good or bad solution, but per this link Sonos supports Apple Music natively:

https://support.sonos.com/en-us/services/apple-music

On a separate issue: $1000 sounds pretty high for this functionality. It should be available for much less. Wiim is <$100. It appears Sonos connecting to Apple Music is free.
 
C hart: I'm curious to know if there's an improvement with a higher quality dac.

As far as I can hear right now, the Sonos sounds good.

If the Sonos port is connected to the MX113 (preamp) which is connected to the tube amp, is the Sonos the DAC? I assume yes.

So what's the better connection to streaming and why the price range:
1/ Sonos Port <$400 if you get it used
2/ Bluesound Node ~$600 on Amazon
3/ Yamaha WXC-50 MusicCast Wireless Streaming Preamplifier ~$449 on Amazon
 
I tried a couple pieces here. Had mac computers - with an external drive with lots of music, generally wifi streaming through our house, playing through Airport receivers on audio gear around the house. With external streaming services, like radio paradise, Tidal or Qobuz, or tons of music internet available "radio" stations available by their URL, I wanted a tuner/streamer to listen to all those feeds. I tried a number of gadgets, but wasn't sure they were all outputting the full res of the sources.
So I put a raspberry Pi together and configured it to see the internet, loaded it with a DAC for dedicated decoding of the streams, and tied it to my main system.
The current DAC actually displays the incoming bitrate, which is nice to see for higher res feeds (but isn't essential)
 
I feel like this question keeps coming up. My understanding is that any digital streamer, as long as it provides as bit perfect stream, and can handle the bitrate/sample rate that the service (Tidal, Apple Music, Amazon etc.) is providing, is always going to sound the same. It's just a digital transfer device, like a modem or router. So the only difference in streamers is features, so get whatever has the features you want.

DACs on the other hand can vary in sound quality, all the way from the little chip on a cheap phone, to multi thousand dollar units.

That's really all there is to digital streaming. A streamer that has the features you want, and a DAC that fits your budget and sounds the way you like.
 
[QUOTE="johnwe, post:

and I'm a little naive about modern hifi- hoping to learn more. I don't really understand DAC vs streamer and my modern Marantz.[/QUOTE]

Some on AK will try to be superior/snarky but most will not. I’ve gotten tiered of at least one member who constantly looks down his nose so to speak.

But ask away. We all have to start somewhere.
 
@johnwe, again I don't have one, but it appears the Sonos is the DAC. Sounds like you have a Port so that should be it, no? Unless you are looking to have another Sonos-equipped amp/speakers.

I think the majority of DACs are pretty darn good these days, including your Sonus.

@cpt_paranoia's writeup is very complete and a terrific intro to DACs and streaming (nice job!). But he is quite objective so doesn't emphasize just how much better digital is compared to other media for accuracy and noise. It can simultaneously be both extremely cheap and ultra low noise/distortion (ESS Sabre 9017S: $6 at Mouser, -110dB S/N).

Regarding streaming music services, I cannot hear the difference between lossless and CD quality based on some YouTube tests. Apple Music is lossless in any event so there is no need for Tidal.

If you aren't getting restless with your gear, for top notch sound I think you are right where you need to be.
 
C Hart said:
But he is quite objective so doesn't emphasize just how much better digital is compared to other media for accuracy and noise.
Click to expand...

That thread about streamers & audio quality is purely about digital. I wrote it mostly as a counter to those who suggest that more expensive 'audiophile' streamers will sound better. It describes what does not, and what might affect audio quality in a streamer. I linked to it, as it expanded on what @WillVT had said.

It's not a general discussion about analogue vs digital, or about DACs and digital reproduction in general; that's a much bigger discussion, that @Mystic is trying to pursuade me to write up...
 
C Hart said:
@johnwe, again I don't have one, but it appears the Sonos is the DAC. Sounds like you have a Port so that should be it, no? Unless you are looking to have another Sonos-equipped amp/speakers.

I think the majority of DACs are pretty darn good these days, including your Sonus.

@cpt_paranoia's writeup is very complete and a terrific intro to DACs and streaming (nice job!). But he is quite objective so doesn't emphasize just how much better digital is compared to other media for accuracy and noise. It can simultaneously be both extremely cheap and ultra low noise/distortion (ESS Sabre 9017S: $6 at Mouser, -110dB S/N).

Regarding streaming music services, I cannot hear the difference between lossless and CD quality based on some YouTube tests. Apple Music is lossless in any event so there is no need for Tidal.

If you aren't getting restless with your gear, for top notch sound I think you are right where you need to be.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. I did some listening tonight, and let my wife judge the difference too, and between the Marantz with a variety of settings (2 speaker stereo vs some of the 5 speaker settings) we both preferred the Sonos Port/McIntosh MX113/Willsenton R8 combo the most.

I have all EQ in the Sonos flat. The bass boost from the MX113 is remarkable. It sounds like there's a subwoofer being used (JBL L100 main front/stereo speakers with both amps).

I guess there's a chance that the DAC in the Sonos is better than the Marantz- but I bet they are the same or the Marantz is better. I'm connecting with wifi/bluetooth to both Marantz and Sonos. In tonight's set up the Sonos is only with the non-Marantz amp/preamp combo.
 
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