Struggling with Heresy I, is the Klipsch Heritage sound not for me?

[goldenechos]

Is it worth trying Klipschorns or Cornwall or La Scala? Or is the Heresy indicative of the Klipsch heritage sound and maybe it is just not for me?
I picked up some late model Heresy I speakers with K-22, K-53k and K-77 drivers, E-2 crossovers. The horns are not metal. I recapped the crossovers with quality audio grade poly caps. I bought Alan Eaton 45 tube monoblocks. I tried moving the tweeter to a more attenuated tap on the autoformer. I’ve had these speakers in and out of corners, pulled out from the front wall by anywhere from 1 to 4 feet. I’ve put them on flat stands, angled stands, directly on the floor. Toed in and out… I feel like I’ve tried more with this speaker than any other.

I’m being selective about what I play on these speakers. I’m not listening to bass heavy music. I’m playing mostly 60s and 70s soul and blues records. Every once in a while a particular song will sound good, but most of the time the tweeter is grainy and the midrange is too forward sounding to my ears.

I would say the sound reminds me of seeing live music in small clubs back in the 80’s and early 90’s.

T

 

[exee]

I just went through a similar journey with a pair of Heresy 2s. If you are willing to tinker and upgrade, then search Super Heresy in this forum. From stock I found dropping both the tweeter AND mid down a tap on the autoformer went a long way to balancing things out. Dampening the horns, even though not metal can help a tiny bit take some of the edge off.

 

[opnly bafld]

The 1981 Heresy's (all original) I had 10+ years ago only sounded good to me after I added a pair of subwoofers, sold them after a year or so. For a couple of years now I've had 1982 CW's (all stock - have new caps in a bag) and I'm happy with them.
Had a pair of 1983? La Scala Industrial's (that I did some work on for a friend) with ALK crossovers here for a few months and liked them except the lack of low bass and the peak @ 140Hz. My friend uses a pair of open baffle 15's with them and they sound really good together.

 

[BmWr75]

Heresy was designed to be a center channel speaker mainly for vocals IIRC. They are probably the most bought and sold Klipsch model ever made.

 

[Deang]

I would say the sound reminds me of seeing live music in small clubs back in the 80’s and early 90’s

Yeah, love it or hate it - that’s “the Klipsch sound”.

 

[Cask05]

Is it worth trying Klipschorns or Cornwall or La Scala?

I would highly recommend a pair of Danley SH-50s or SH-60s in a stereo arrangement--or any Danley Synergies, for that matter.

’m being selective about what I play on these speakers. I’m not listening to bass heavy music. I’m playing mostly 60s and 70s soul and blues records. Every once in a while a particular song will sound good, but most of the time the tweeter is grainy and the midrange is too forward sounding to my ears.

To be honest, much of what is the problem that you're hearing could be discussed by looking at a single REW measurement file of the loudspeakers, taken with a measurement microphone (such as a UMIK-1, etc.). I found that the K-77 tweeters were always harsh sounding, and the issues with the in-room floor and ceiling bounce of the K700 midrange horn below ~2200 Hz are always problematic to deal with (due to the small vertical dimension of the K-700 horn mouth size losing polar control below 2.2 kHz).

The Danley Synergies still have amplitude response issues in-room (particularly around 100-300 Hz, with significant peaks and troughs), but these are easily EQed out using REW measurements and almost any kind of upstream digital EQ app or DSP box, etc.--including Dirac, Audyssey, YPAO, etc. But the issues with large time misalignment of drivers/horns, and harsh-sounding tweeters are avoided.

Yes, there are things that can be done to the basic Heresy design to improve matters incrementally. But the design of the other design of loudspeakers that I brought up will simply avoid all of the issues that you are likely hearing--without giving up horn-loaded loudspeaker performance.

JMTC. This forum doesn't have to be "yet another Klipsch fan-boy forum". Instead, being able to talk to each other plainly and honestly with physical facts in hand, and ways to work around the sound quality issues--this is the real strength of a forum like this one (IMO).

Chris

 

[Gigantic]

Is it worth trying Klipschorns or Cornwall or La Scala? Or is the Heresy indicative of the Klipsch heritage sound and maybe it is just not for me?
I picked up some late model Heresy I speakers with K-22, K-53k and K-77 drivers, E-2 crossovers. The horns are not metal. I recapped the crossovers with quality audio grade poly caps. I bought Alan Eaton 45 tube monoblocks. I tried moving the tweeter to a more attenuated tap on the autoformer. I’ve had these speakers in and out of corners, pulled out from the front wall by anywhere from 1 to 4 feet. I’ve put them on flat stands, angled stands, directly on the floor. Toed in and out… I feel like I’ve tried more with this speaker than any other.

I’m being selective about what I play on these speakers. I’m not listening to bass heavy music. I’m playing mostly 60s and 70s soul and blues records. Every once in a while a particular song will sound good, but most of the time the tweeter is grainy and the midrange is too forward sounding to my ears.

I would say the sound reminds me of seeing live music in small clubs back in the 80’s and early 90’s.

T

I began my journey with a pair of 1971 H700 Heresy speakers that I salvaged from a job about 19 years ago. They remain the worst speakers I've ever owned, saved the pair that came with the BPC Lloyd system my parents got me for my 12th birthday. I restored them completely and they were still awful. not willing to give up on them, I did Claude Jodoin's Super Heresy mods and they came to life; so much so that I put them back to stock, sold them for a grand and used the largesse to build another pair, this time from baltic birch. Paired with a couple subwoofers, they really shined, but I wanted more. out of curiosity, I built a pair of speakers that were effectively forte clones, using the K701 woofer/drivers from the S Heresy clones, then forte 2 horns and finally a K 501 with a 2" driver. Along the way, I discovered what makes horn speakers so wonderful, that low distortion, high sensitivity sound that makes it seem like the musicians are there with you in the room.

I'd recommend a pair of subs at the very least and if you feel daring, perhaps turn them into Super Heresy, although most builds use Heresy 1, given your description, you have Heresy 2, so there may be some additional alterations to the recipe. with the Super Heresy, it will take away the graininess of the tweeter and with a more sensitive woofer, you may likely find that the midrange is more balanced.

You may find you like the Cornwall better, same for the LaScala, but they are nothing, if not bass shy like the heresy. However, unlike the Heresy, they do have the motet incredible sounding mid bass, although, depending on the model, they may have the same grainy and sibilant tweeters. you won't know if you like them until you try.

 

[tubelectron]

Is it worth trying Klipschorns or Cornwall or La Scala? Or is the Heresy indicative of the Klipsch heritage sound and maybe it is just not for me?
I picked up some late model Heresy I speakers with K-22, K-53k and K-77 drivers, E-2 crossovers. The horns are not metal. I recapped the crossovers with quality audio grade poly caps. I bought Alan Eaton 45 tube monoblocks. I tried moving the tweeter to a more attenuated tap on the autoformer. I’ve had these speakers in and out of corners, pulled out from the front wall by anywhere from 1 to 4 feet. I’ve put them on flat stands, angled stands, directly on the floor. Toed in and out… I feel like I’ve tried more with this speaker than any other.

I’m being selective about what I play on these speakers. I’m not listening to bass heavy music. I’m playing mostly 60s and 70s soul and blues records. Every once in a while a particular song will sound good, but most of the time the tweeter is grainy and the midrange is too forward sounding to my ears.

I would say the sound reminds me of seeing live music in small clubs back in the 80’s and early 90’s.

T

You can experiment a simple and removable modification of the crossover that I imagined in Nov. 2005 - still in place today on my Heresy I which have the exact same complement of speakers as your Heresy I :

It should work quite fine with SE tube amps or OTL tube amps...

Now, if I had the possibility to choose for an improvement, I would go for a pair of Cornwall speakers from the latter generations : CIII or CIV.

But it's me, OK ?

T

 

[goldenechos]

Heresy was designed to be a center channel speaker mainly for vocals IIRC. They are probably the most bought and sold Klipsch model ever made.

This all makes alot of sense. Thanx, T

 

[goldenechos]

You can experiment a simple and removable modification of the crossover that I imagined in Nov. 2005 - still in place today on my Heresy I which have the exact same complement of speakers as your Heresy I :

It should work quite fine with SE tube amps or OTL tube amps...

Now, if I had the possibility to choose for an improvement, I would go for a pair of Cornwall speakers from the latter generations : CIII or CIV.

But it's me, OK ?

T

That is a really easy mod. I will def try it. Thanx! T

 

[goldenechos]

OK today as I await the parts express delivery for the above mentioned mod, I connected the Eaton 45/ Heresy system to my RME Fireface audio interface and I'm streaming. The RME has a pretty nicely featured Room EQ which you can apply per channel.
I did a gentle high pass at 35hz, a gentle bell +4db boost at 60hz to get more low end punch. I have the speakers pulled really far from the front wall. Then I did a combination of a gentle -1.5db shelf cut at 900hz with gentle bell -3db cut at 5khz.

This really helps to make these speakers more useful for me... I found myself really enjoying even some more full range electronic music from Sam Prekop & Jon McEntire, their recent "Sons Of..." album.

I would say the experience is quite different from my main system (Magnepan 3.7i with Sanders Magtech amp, C22 tube pre). Still has that hard punchy early 90's club sound, but the high end is less tinnitus inducing lol.

Thanx for all the comments, I appreciate the insights. T

 

[twiiii]

I had series 1 Hersey for a while and the only way they sounded good to me was installing then in the corner up against the ceiling to maximize the bass extension and out put level. After a few years we sold them and installed some Boston flush mounted speakers and though they could play as loudly the reselting sopund was much more enjoyable and true to the performance.. How do I know that. Because I use to boot leg performances of professionals we supplied sound systems for. Ray Charles, Crystal Gale,Lettermen, and Sand Pipers, etc. Also live performances of wind bands and Orchestras that wanted LP's and later cassettes made for the performers and their families.

 

[tubelectron]

Heresy was designed to be a center channel speaker mainly for vocals IIRC. They are probably the most bought and sold Klipsch model ever made.

Yes. As far as I read, they were also proposed in a triphonic mode : a pair of Heresy surrounding a central Klipschorn or Belle Klipsch.
They were not really designed to be standalone units, in fact : the tweeter and the squawker were set to match as best the central speaker, and the woofer did... What he could, rather acting as a low-midrange. We measured a difference of efficiency at circa 10dB - IIRC - between the woofer and the two other speakers.

One salesman has reputedly have said to Paul Wilbur Klipsch about that project : "it's an heresy !" - that's from where comes the name, apparently !

T

 

[Deang]

You’re close.

The salesman was watching PK sketch out the direct radiator design, and while watching, said - “That’s heresy.”

 

[jayvis]

The Heresy is basically the bookshelf speaker in the Heritage line and a lot of people are obsessed with trying to make them into something that they were never meant to be. The more forward sounding midrange and high frequencies are present in every Klipsch speaker. I enjoyed my Heresy IIs in 2-channel systems for about 15 years before my ears and brain told me not to. They've been relegated to strictly home theater use for the last 25 years.

 

[goldenechos]

I tried @tubelectron mod (see above in this same thread) and it is the most dramatic low cost improvement in the Heresy I squawker to woofer balance. I'm sure the $500 Crites Universal Crossover is capable of better results, but $500 crossovers in $400 speakers seems overkill to me. The speaker is easier to listen to with this simple mod, but the woofer still struggles at times and the tweeters still distorts. Thanx for all the responses! This thread has been helpful in understanding this very popular speaker's place and time.

 

[krautmaster]

The early "Hershey Bars" are the worst sounding of all Klipsch's speakers (IMO) they used to sell a ton of them based on their reputation, but they are the most resold speaker for a reason: they just sound bad -too bright in the mids & highs, very fatiguing. I would punt them off to someone else, and if you must have Klipsch speakers, look for some Cornwalls, they sound good and are not as huge as some of their other speakers.

 

[tubelectron]

I tried @tubelectron mod (see above in this same thread) and it is the most dramatic low cost improvement in the Heresy I squawker to woofer balance. I'm sure the $500 Crites Universal Crossover is capable of better results, but $500 crossovers in $400 speakers seems overkill to me. The speaker is easier to listen to with this simple mod, but the woofer still struggles at times and the tweeters still distorts. Thanx for all the responses! This thread has been helpful in understanding this very popular speaker's place and time.

Yes, it doesn't do miracles... But you easlly shift from nearly unlistenable to much more acceptable... And for a low cost !

Driven by my DIY U-OTL amps, they are really "bluffing" !

Additionally, I completely filled my Heresy cabs with cotton wool :

Some will say that it is a sacrilège... But this contributed to a more neutral tone and a bit of. deeper bass extension (by increasing the acoustical volume). Again, there's no miracle here : it's a cheap and easy improvement, worth to test...

For better, no miracle too : I would shift to a pair of Cornwall III or IV... If you have the room for it, then go for it !

T

 

[Mike_S]

Along with everything else, pull out the horn drivers, pull out diaphragms, clean everything out of the magnet channels, reassemble. Then dampen the horns.

You didn't really say what kind of room they are in, what you are driving them with, what you had before. One good/bad thing about Klipsch speakers are they tend to be very revealing speakers. Meaning you can hear things that other speakers cover up. This is good when you have good gear and source music, but very bad if you have a poor recording, or gear that needs work, or just tired.

Horn speakers tend to also be on the bright side. If you have a bright room, it will make it worse. carpets, drapes, plants, other soft things in the room really help.

Vintage Klipsch are a DIY dream.