I put together a basic DIY record cleaning system yesterday. I modified the crevice tool of a vacuum and am cleaning with a solution of 25% isopropyl alcohol (99%), 75% distilled water, and a drop of dish soap. After cleaning and vacuuming a side, I went to play it and found that the stylus was getting gunked up part way through the first track. I cleaned and vacuumed it again and only made it to about the second track before it happened again. So I'm guessing that the vacuum is the problem here... At first it had too much suction and was lifting the record off the platter. I drilled some relief holes and that made it a little easier to spin, though it could still lift the record if I wasn't careful. Does anyone have any ideas on what could be wrong with my setup that is letting the gunk stay in the grooves? Also, should I be waiting in between applying the solution and vacuuming, or between vacuuming and playing? So far I've just done each step back to back and am not getting great results....Any help would be appreciated!
Stylus gunking up after using DIY RCM
- Thread starter zounds!
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Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
Perhaps you are loosening up the crud on the record, but the vac is not picking it up? Have you tried perhaps a way to catch the fluid and see what is in it?
I wait for the solution to sit on the record for a minute or two for it to have time to work on the contaminants before sucking it off. I also use a clean water rinse afterwards, something like distilled water will work.
What are you using to apply and brush the fluid onto the record with? Actually the brushes you use to clean under your finger nails work well as a DIY solution, they can be had at the drug store for instance.
I also take it that your suction wand has some sort of felt on it to form a seal to the record? To create a pathway for the gunk to go, so you don't have to use too much vacuum pressure?
Regards
John
I wait for the solution to sit on the record for a minute or two for it to have time to work on the contaminants before sucking it off. I also use a clean water rinse afterwards, something like distilled water will work.
What are you using to apply and brush the fluid onto the record with? Actually the brushes you use to clean under your finger nails work well as a DIY solution, they can be had at the drug store for instance.
I also take it that your suction wand has some sort of felt on it to form a seal to the record? To create a pathway for the gunk to go, so you don't have to use too much vacuum pressure?
Regards
John
reydelaplaya
Super Member
Hi, zounds!
How's that 750 running for you?
Sounds like the wash is loosening grunge in the groove, but the vac isn't getting it all out - turning your stylus into a backhoe.
Your best bet is to just repeat the cleaning a time or two more to make sure all the crud is out of the groove.
Also, I've seen both yays and nays over playing records while they're still a little wet in the grooves. Could be that your records appear dry, but deeper down they've still got some moisture in the grooves. The soft-bristled paint pads seem to be a popular DIY scrubber.
I've got a couple flea market records that sound alright, but each time I play them after a cleaning, I still get residue. So yeah, I guess until we fork over $$$$ for an ultrasonic with all the bells and whistles, we're stuck with cleaning some crud off our styli from time to time. LOL
Back to your 750, how has it been working? Hopefully great!
How's that 750 running for you?
Sounds like the wash is loosening grunge in the groove, but the vac isn't getting it all out - turning your stylus into a backhoe.
Your best bet is to just repeat the cleaning a time or two more to make sure all the crud is out of the groove.
Also, I've seen both yays and nays over playing records while they're still a little wet in the grooves. Could be that your records appear dry, but deeper down they've still got some moisture in the grooves. The soft-bristled paint pads seem to be a popular DIY scrubber.
I've got a couple flea market records that sound alright, but each time I play them after a cleaning, I still get residue. So yeah, I guess until we fork over $$$$ for an ultrasonic with all the bells and whistles, we're stuck with cleaning some crud off our styli from time to time. LOL
Back to your 750, how has it been working? Hopefully great!
I would be interested in seeing the wand, what do you have for it to protect the record and the brisels to help get the dirty sulotion out of the grooves?
Also just because you vacuumed the record doesn't mean you can play it immediately, it has to dry a bit more. This is were I think your having a problem.
Also just because you vacuumed the record doesn't mean you can play it immediately, it has to dry a bit more. This is were I think your having a problem.
62sunbeam
Raconteur
I find that just spraying a solution on a record and sucking it off isn't enough.
I use two Harbor Freight dent pullers to hold the record and protect the labels. I spray both sides of the LP with a 1/1 solution of simple green and water and gently scrub both sides of the LP and then rinse under the kitchen faucet with warm water. I then give a final rinse with distilled water with 25% isopropyl and THEN I put it on my RCM and suck both sides dry. Even then I wait a few minutes before playing to make sure the record is totally dry.
Good luck
Eric
I use two Harbor Freight dent pullers to hold the record and protect the labels. I spray both sides of the LP with a 1/1 solution of simple green and water and gently scrub both sides of the LP and then rinse under the kitchen faucet with warm water. I then give a final rinse with distilled water with 25% isopropyl and THEN I put it on my RCM and suck both sides dry. Even then I wait a few minutes before playing to make sure the record is totally dry.
Good luck
Eric
ConradH
Lunatic Member
Are you doing enough rinsing and is there anything in your IPA? Get the highest percentage you can, with no additives. FWIW, I don't even use alcohol anymore, not because I think there's anything harmful about it, but because it isn't an effective cleaner for the gunk I'm usually trying to clean. I go with just a enzyme cleaner. Some people also like Dawn as their soap. IMO, the stuff is effective, but hard to completely rinse off. Which goes back to the rinse!
jasonsong86
Super Member
Dish soap? You better use a rinse after that.
Are you brushing the records? I use two paint pads which work very well digging the crap out of the grooves.
Are you brushing the records? I use two paint pads which work very well digging the crap out of the grooves.
To clarify my process/materials: my IPA is 99% and I'm adding just a small drop of dish soap to the mix as a surfactant (I was under the impression that this was pretty standard?). After applying the solution, I give the platter a good spin and hold a Shur-Line paint pad on top of the surface. My wand is the crevice tool from my vacuum with the open end plugged up, and a 1/16" slit cut down the middle of the flat side. I glued a layer of velvet along that side so the plastic tool doesn't touch the record. The opposite side of the tool has several holes drilled in it to release some of the pressure.
At you folks' recommendation I followed the first cycle of solution scrubbing--> vacuuming with a distilled water rinse which I spread using a Discwasher brush (the newer model) and then vacuumed. I tried leaving the solution on for a minute after scrubbing before vacuuming too.
Even with letting the solution sink and following with a rinse, the stylus was still getting gunked up on the record in question. It was definitely worst towards the beginning of each side. The first track needed to be stopped mid play due to distortion, but by the end of the side there wasn't any accumulation. The first tracks could be dirtier due to improper handling, or maybe the record has just air dried sufficiently by the end of the side that the stylus can't lift the gunk that is still at the end of each side.
I tried the process on a record that didn't seem dirty (zero surface noise) and it didn't get gunked up at all, so maybe very dirty records just need multiple cleaning cycles before the final rinse, or just a more vigorous scrub...Should I be actually working the pad in and/or scrubbing back and forth like I was washing dishes?
Just perfect! As you may recall, I was fixing it up as a gift which I gave last week, so we've parted ways. It replaced a pretty horrid ION tt and was a big hit!
At you folks' recommendation I followed the first cycle of solution scrubbing--> vacuuming with a distilled water rinse which I spread using a Discwasher brush (the newer model) and then vacuumed. I tried leaving the solution on for a minute after scrubbing before vacuuming too.
Even with letting the solution sink and following with a rinse, the stylus was still getting gunked up on the record in question. It was definitely worst towards the beginning of each side. The first track needed to be stopped mid play due to distortion, but by the end of the side there wasn't any accumulation. The first tracks could be dirtier due to improper handling, or maybe the record has just air dried sufficiently by the end of the side that the stylus can't lift the gunk that is still at the end of each side.
I tried the process on a record that didn't seem dirty (zero surface noise) and it didn't get gunked up at all, so maybe very dirty records just need multiple cleaning cycles before the final rinse, or just a more vigorous scrub...Should I be actually working the pad in and/or scrubbing back and forth like I was washing dishes?
Just perfect! As you may recall, I was fixing it up as a gift which I gave last week, so we've parted ways. It replaced a pretty horrid ION tt and was a big hit!
robertokray
I'm your Huckleberry
I have been getting lots of gunk too. Seems like no mater how many times they get cleaned the gunk never ends. Argh!
jasonsong86
Super Member
Try a solution with dishwasher rinsing detergent.
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
I think it is a combination of a couple of factors. I don't think your cleaning method is getting down in the grooves and working the gunk up. Secondly your fluid is not there long enough to loosen stuff either.
The most important part is I suspect you are not getting enough vacuum into the bottom of the groove to suck the gunk out. You are getting the fluid off, but not the other stuff. My VPI uses a screw down clamp to keep the record in place so it can turn. If you have the necessary vacuum suction, the record will not easily move. So some residual fluid sits in the bottom of the groove, softens stuff up and the stylus drags it up.
Of course I am diagnosing by inference, and there may be other factors in play. But this is my educated guess.
Regards
Mister Pig
The most important part is I suspect you are not getting enough vacuum into the bottom of the groove to suck the gunk out. You are getting the fluid off, but not the other stuff. My VPI uses a screw down clamp to keep the record in place so it can turn. If you have the necessary vacuum suction, the record will not easily move. So some residual fluid sits in the bottom of the groove, softens stuff up and the stylus drags it up.
Of course I am diagnosing by inference, and there may be other factors in play. But this is my educated guess.
Regards
Mister Pig
After cleaning several more records it looks like it was just the one that was gunking up -- a pretty rough copy of Otis Redding & Carla Thomas' "King & Queen" that I bought at a record fair. It has some surface noise even after multiple cleanings that I guess is there to stay. After running over it a third and final time it played without any gunk build up, so it was just stubborn.
I went ahead and cleaned a few more that had bothersome surface noise -- some thrashed old thrift store finds and some brand new pressings -- scrubbing a little more vigorously to get deeper in the grooves (which also gave the solution more time on the record) and rinsing afterwards and can both hear an audible reduction in noise and am not getting the gunked up stylus, so I guess things are working as they should. Thanks for the tips everybody!
I went ahead and cleaned a few more that had bothersome surface noise -- some thrashed old thrift store finds and some brand new pressings -- scrubbing a little more vigorously to get deeper in the grooves (which also gave the solution more time on the record) and rinsing afterwards and can both hear an audible reduction in noise and am not getting the gunked up stylus, so I guess things are working as they should. Thanks for the tips everybody!
reydelaplaya
Super Member
Awesome! Glad to hear it's working well, and that you got your record cleaning figured out. That Yamaha was a great gift, I'm sure the recipient will really enjoy it. I think my 751 might end up in my son's apartment here in a month or so since now I have my YP701. He has expressed interest in getting a TT recently, so I think it would make a great starter table if he's willing to go the vintage route. Otherwise, I've been reading up on those uturn orbits - they look pretty nice.
nkorah
Active Member
A couple of remarks:
a) your basic solution is too strong - you should do the same but dilute it with some 70% distilled water.
b) rinse it twice with water only.
c) use brushes instead of the pad. the pad mostly pushed the dirt into the groove, whereas the brushes pulls it out. made a distinctive improvement for me.
I used to have the same problem, and discovered it was due to too much cleaning agent, which wasn't rinse well and didn't dry completely.
Cheers!
a) your basic solution is too strong - you should do the same but dilute it with some 70% distilled water.
b) rinse it twice with water only.
c) use brushes instead of the pad. the pad mostly pushed the dirt into the groove, whereas the brushes pulls it out. made a distinctive improvement for me.
I used to have the same problem, and discovered it was due to too much cleaning agent, which wasn't rinse well and didn't dry completely.
Cheers!
So this turned out to only be an issue with that one problem record. I have however diluted my solution a bit with more distilled water and also got the KAB hand turner, as my DIY version was not very effective, causing me to push down too hard and wear a ring around the labels on some older records.
I just made some test recordings of side 1 of Neil Young's "Journey Through the Past" and got remarkable results. There was a crackling/grinding sound that was pretty constant through it. One cleaning cleared a lot of that out and brought the surface noise below the level of the music. But then I cleaned it again and it was better...and then again, still better. I recorded it uncleaned, then cleaned with the solution (several rotations gently scrubbing, then sit for 2 minutes), vacuumed, rinsed, vacuumed then recorded and listened. I did the same three more times (for a total of 4 cleaning cycles), each time hearing less surface noise, and the last time hearing more detail in the music and a clearer high end. That's great and all, but it took forever, and I've still got 3 sides to clean! I'm wondering if I diluted my solution too much. I started with 25% alcohol/75% water, now I'm probably closer to 10%/90%. :scratch2:
I just made some test recordings of side 1 of Neil Young's "Journey Through the Past" and got remarkable results. There was a crackling/grinding sound that was pretty constant through it. One cleaning cleared a lot of that out and brought the surface noise below the level of the music. But then I cleaned it again and it was better...and then again, still better. I recorded it uncleaned, then cleaned with the solution (several rotations gently scrubbing, then sit for 2 minutes), vacuumed, rinsed, vacuumed then recorded and listened. I did the same three more times (for a total of 4 cleaning cycles), each time hearing less surface noise, and the last time hearing more detail in the music and a clearer high end. That's great and all, but it took forever, and I've still got 3 sides to clean! I'm wondering if I diluted my solution too much. I started with 25% alcohol/75% water, now I'm probably closer to 10%/90%. :scratch2:
What works for me is to let the cleaning solution sit a minute or two to reach the bottom of the groove, then brush well (I use a variety of tools) and lastly, and perhaps the step that really gets crud out, is very warm distilled water rinse sprayed via a hand pump at about 30PSI with the nozzle focused down and sprayed right into the grooves. Followed by a double vacuum, first 1/4" above the LP and second right down on it. My rinse water is collected in a tub and after a dozen LPs the water is quite grayish brown. Then after all that they go into a rack to dry for quite a while and into a new sleeve. No crud on my stylus ever but I do retain some crackles sadly.
I don't think it was mentioned but if so too bad,
the main reason your stylus gets gunked up is not allowing the record to completely dry. If you don't allow the record to completely dry the stylus will build up a hard casing of dirt, almost like what a dirt dobber builds around the tip of the stylus, and it becomes hard and very difficult to clean off. Make sure you allow plenty of time for the LP to dry.
the main reason your stylus gets gunked up is not allowing the record to completely dry. If you don't allow the record to completely dry the stylus will build up a hard casing of dirt, almost like what a dirt dobber builds around the tip of the stylus, and it becomes hard and very difficult to clean off. Make sure you allow plenty of time for the LP to dry.