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Surprised with old Japanese speakers

bikingbuddha

bikingbuddha

Well-Known Member
A couple of days back I went to my friends place and he had cleaned up his junk-stuff from his home. He had put out a pair of "National SB-320N" speakers, He said I can take them if I want to...! he doesn't want em'. I am a sucker for freebies like this so I immediately took them home with me. I cleaned them up and opened the boxes just to see what's inside. I was thinking they were some two way speakers boxed with an old Japanese sound system. I was kind of surprised to find out that they were full range speakers inside the boxes, no crossovers, and those smaller holes which I thought were tweeters are for bass ports. No stuffing was there in the box and everything seems very new and clean inside. I didn't expect a huge sound out of them, little did I know, I hooked them up to my old "Sansui AU-117" and I was surprised of how they sound.

This ain't gonna compete with anything, cheap stamped steel 8 watts per channel pair of old Japanese speakers but they do sounded far beyond my expectations. The vocals were smooth and lush, bass was there but not floor shaking kind, biggest surprise was the highs, Highs were pretty good for an old full-range speaker. Coolest part is they sounds really good for watching movies on my computer. I searched the internet for any information, I couldn't find anything.

Anyone among our AudioKarma folks has info on these drivers? Anyone has em'? use em'?

IMG20210922112939.jpg IMG20210919134038.jpg IMG20210922112729.jpg IMG20210922112959.jpg
 
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Full ranges have their place for sure. No x-overs, no multiple driver interractions etc, etc...
I DIY'd a pair (my avatar), and in my bedroom, for jazz, as a alarm clock audio, they are awesome!.
 
Some of it is that your expectations are low. So you are pleased with the sound, given what it is. But there is also the fact that crossovers may be necessary to a really full range system, but they are a very mixed blessing - they operate by blocking frequencies, so they flatten dynamics, which can be dealt with by using a more powerful amp, but they also complicate the load on the amp, making it more capacitative and more reactive, neither of which the amp likes, so you can deal with that with a more load tolerant amp, but now everything is a lot more complicated and expensive.
There are fuller range single drivers than the one you have, but as you extend the range, the work the driver has to do gets much greater, so the drivers get more expensive, and to produce bass, you need moving area, but that makes the driver heavier and makes it beam more, so the high end drops off and the sweet spot becomes miniscule. And - surprise - the drivers are a lot more expensive.
So there is your choice - I suggest you enjoy the virtues of the full range speaker you were given, but keep your regular speakers for when you want more bass and treble.
 
The triangular logo on the driver is Matsushita and National was a brand name used by Matsushita. I haven't listened to these particular speakers though so can't comment on it.
 
To my knowledge National was the earliest brand name for Matsushita speakers marketed in North America prior to the Panasonic brand and then later the Technics brand which found great success in North America. National made some interesting looking extended range drivers back in the early 1960's and although I'd love to get one to experiment with they usually sell on FleaBay for more than I am willing to pay (ie. frankenspeaker cheapskate syndrome! lol)
 
Nat said:
Some of it is that your expectations are low. So you are pleased with the sound, given what it is. But there is also the fact that crossovers may be necessary to a really full range system, but they are a very mixed blessing - they operate by blocking frequencies, so they flatten dynamics, which can be dealt with by using a more powerful amp, but they also complicate the load on the amp, making it more capacitative and more reactive, neither of which the amp likes, so you can deal with that with a more load tolerant amp, but now everything is a lot more complicated and expensive.
There are fuller range single drivers than the one you have, but as you extend the range, the work the driver has to do gets much greater, so the drivers get more expensive, and to produce bass, you need moving area, but that makes the driver heavier and makes it beam more, so the high end drops off and the sweet spot becomes miniscule. And - surprise - the drivers are a lot more expensive.
So there is your choice - I suggest you enjoy the virtues of the full range speaker you were given, but keep your regular speakers for when you want more bass and treble.
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Absolutely. I am not making them compete with other speakers I have. I am just surprised that for what they are, they did far exceed my expectations. from the looks of them, they are not the expensive full range speaker type. Just mere pair of boxes came with an old Japan made all in one I guess.
 
stickman said:
To my knowledge National was the earliest brand name for Matsushita speakers marketed in North America prior to the Panasonic brand and then later the Technics brand which found great success in North America. National made some interesting looking extended range drivers back in the early 1960's and although I'd love to get one to experiment with they usually sell on FleaBay for more than I am willing to pay (ie. frankenspeaker cheapskate syndrome! lol)
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In the 80's and early 90's National was a very famous brand in where I live for televisions, VCR, and of course sound systems (all in one cassette + FM etc), I have seen many homes had them. Even for me, it was the first gear I had my hands on, I used to record songs from FM radio to Cassette back in those days as a kid.

I never really knew they manufactured full range speakers until I got these.
 
pauldrewry said:
Bet they would sound great with tubes
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Absolutely, it would have been a treat if I had my 3W per channel single ended tube amplifier. Unfortunately I sold it due to a lack of use because my 12 Inch Philips AD1255/M7 didn't do well with them. I didn't had a good pair of speakers that could work well with that amplifier. If I come across one again, I would definitely buy it for these speakers.
 
I really wish they had removable grill so I can look at how the speakers may look like. I don't want to remove them from the old box fearing it will screw things up.
 
images.jpg

This is exactly the same system I used back then. It has such wonderful memories, my parents sold it somewhere in the mid 90's. I really wish I could find it again just to keep around for pure nostalgia. I remember it had a STK based amplifier inside. I found this image while looking for these retro systems.
 
National was the name applied to Matsushita/Panasonic products sold in Japan until quite recently. I think it is still used for certain things like rice cookers.
 
Many of the old single driver speakers sound surprisingly good just by themselves. As soon as ambitions get higher, multiple drivers are needed, and crossovers, and, usually a closed back enclosure - sealed or ported, rather than the relatively uncommon open back, or the common pegboard type back. Suddenly, the budget for one driver has to get shared between two or more drivers and the crossover components. Crossovers complicate the load on the amp and eat up power, so now the previously sufficient amp may not be good enough (and if it is an all in one system, the new amp, too, comes out of the budget). And now you have multiple sound sources, so there is interference/comb filtering and so on. And sealed boxes have boxy resonances that the open and pegboard enclosures generally lack.
It's not that hard to make a driver that covers a decent portion of the audible spectrum. What is hard is the low end, and, to a lesser degree, the high end.

All of which is to say, enjoy the Matsushitas, but be prepared to find Fostexes, Pioneers, Onkyos, Corals and so on that also sound much better than you might expect.
 
I've experienced and liked several Matsushita/Panasonic drive units. Here is a slightly different, but same size...
.. And here is a cpl pics of probably the ones you havepanasonic-thruster-sb-180.jpg panasonic.jpg
 
Nat said:
Many of the old single driver speakers sound surprisingly good just by themselves. As soon as ambitions get higher, multiple drivers are needed, and crossovers, and, usually a closed back enclosure - sealed or ported, rather than the relatively uncommon open back, or the common pegboard type back. Suddenly, the budget for one driver has to get shared between two or more drivers and the crossover components. Crossovers complicate the load on the amp and eat up power, so now the previously sufficient amp may not be good enough (and if it is an all in one system, the new amp, too, comes out of the budget). And now you have multiple sound sources, so there is interference/comb filtering and so on. And sealed boxes have boxy resonances that the open and pegboard enclosures generally lack.
It's not that hard to make a driver that covers a decent portion of the audible spectrum. What is hard is the low end, and, to a lesser degree, the high end.

All of which is to say, enjoy the Matsushitas, but be prepared to find Fostexes, Pioneers, Onkyos, Corals and so on that also sound much better than you might expect.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for all the information. Im aware of the greatness of drivers you mentioned above. I also have a Philips AD1255/M7 and DUAL CL-9 drivers in a locally made transmission line cabinet. They do sounds good, but my philips lacks a wee bit of highs compared to DUAL and this NATIONAL drivers.

I will look in to further more info and continue my hobby.
 
Poultrygeist said:
Here's some interesting reviews and opinions from a full range single driver junkie. He reviews one of the National drivers as well as several other vintage Japanese drivers. Like a few others here he also prefers tubes, OB's and open back cabinets.

http://glowinthedarkaudio.com/speakers.html

http://glowinthedarkaudio.com/thoughts-opinions.html
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Thanks a lot, i will definitely look in to these. I would love to have good reading material which lacks now days.
 
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