Hello there! I just picked up a sweet 807 amp by Dennis Had. It is my first tube amp and so far I can't get enough of it. I am wondering what you folks opinions on tubes are for this sort of amp? I am using a decware zp3 with a VIP traveler loaded with a grado platinum cartridge and driving the amp with a decware zsla1 line stage. The amp is driving a pair of kirksaeter sl120 towers( I'm looking to upgrade to something more efficient in the future). Any thoughts are appreciated!
Sweet 807 tube recommendations
- Thread starter GregP
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Musictubes
Isaac
I saw you over in the AA forum, congrats on the amp! The 807 is one of my favorite tubes. Like a previous poster mentioned, not sure you can go wrong with any of them. Some of my favorites include:
1) Vt60a sometimes labeled Cossor or GEC with a ceramic base. Actually made by Ediswan, they tend to be open, clear, and very detailed. They can picky about input tubes though. What input tube are you using? My Firebottle KT88 works best with 6sn7 tubes and either the sylvania tall bottle 7n7, Raytheon 6f8g t plate, or if you want to break ther bank, the GEC b65. I got an adapter that allows me to use 12v tubes for the input and that has allowed me to get some rare or expensive tubes cheaper.
2) Brown base Mullard 807. These are much less fussy than the vt60a and give me the tweed jacket by a fireplace British warmth and smoothness.
3) STC 5b/254m. Not sure if you can run these tubes in your amp even with an adapter cause both the base and the top cap are different. Still, one of my favorite 807 tubes and cheap! Kind of like the Mullard but with a more extended top end.
4) RCA 807. Well, I haven’t heard these yet but I have been using their cousin the 6bg6ga. Common wisdom says that they are the same tube just different bases. The plates certainly look the same. Anyway, with the right input tube the midrange through these are to die for.
5) Firenti labeled Russian 807. These are a great bargain but I also found them to be fussy about the input tubes. I initially was going to throw them out when I first heard them with the GE 6sn7 Dennis had included with the amp. Horrid! Later on I tried them with… something else, can’t remember which lol and enjoyed them a lot.
6) Sylvania 5933/807w. In my Firebottle they almost sound soft but they have an appealing presentation for more subdued music.
The good news is that none of these are all that expensive compared to the usual audio suspects! Have fun!
1) Vt60a sometimes labeled Cossor or GEC with a ceramic base. Actually made by Ediswan, they tend to be open, clear, and very detailed. They can picky about input tubes though. What input tube are you using? My Firebottle KT88 works best with 6sn7 tubes and either the sylvania tall bottle 7n7, Raytheon 6f8g t plate, or if you want to break ther bank, the GEC b65. I got an adapter that allows me to use 12v tubes for the input and that has allowed me to get some rare or expensive tubes cheaper.
2) Brown base Mullard 807. These are much less fussy than the vt60a and give me the tweed jacket by a fireplace British warmth and smoothness.
3) STC 5b/254m. Not sure if you can run these tubes in your amp even with an adapter cause both the base and the top cap are different. Still, one of my favorite 807 tubes and cheap! Kind of like the Mullard but with a more extended top end.
4) RCA 807. Well, I haven’t heard these yet but I have been using their cousin the 6bg6ga. Common wisdom says that they are the same tube just different bases. The plates certainly look the same. Anyway, with the right input tube the midrange through these are to die for.
5) Firenti labeled Russian 807. These are a great bargain but I also found them to be fussy about the input tubes. I initially was going to throw them out when I first heard them with the GE 6sn7 Dennis had included with the amp. Horrid! Later on I tried them with… something else, can’t remember which lol and enjoyed them a lot.
6) Sylvania 5933/807w. In my Firebottle they almost sound soft but they have an appealing presentation for more subdued music.
The good news is that none of these are all that expensive compared to the usual audio suspects! Have fun!
I would take a good hard look at the driver tube as well. In my experience with Dennis' designs, the choice of driver tube makes as big a difference if not more. I can't remember if that amp uses a 6SN7 or a 6SL7, but you won't hurt any of Dennis' amps using either, and the sound will change quite a lot. Again, I'm partial to the oldies, especially the WWII vintage stuff, but not everyone's collection or budget can afford them...
Jefffeith
New Member
Hi Analog Addict! I texted Dennis a few weeks ago about using a 6SN7 instead of the 6SL7 he provided with the amp. I told him I was trying to reduce the treble energy of my Klipsch Heresy IV. Well, it worked great! Later today and over the weekend I will be swapping various 6SN7 tubes… I have not yet tried the Linlai or the Amperex… I’ve got 11 different 6SN7s and 4 6SL7s but prefer the 6SN7 in my system. I’ll post what I hear. Looking forward to enjoying a lot of music this weekend!
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Jefffeith
New Member
Excellent list of 807s Isaacc!
Yes, that was an excellent list. I would add that I like the Sylvania box-plate 5933, a bit different from the more "807" like 5933 with the oval plates.
Musictubes
Isaac
I don’t think it’s a fake simply because I don’t know of any manufacturers that are commodity suppliers any more. I think Lin Lai are the only Chinese tube manufacturer these days and the Russian factories don’t make anything that looks like that.
Once upon a time the Chinese factories churned out tons of different tubes for government and military uses along with consumer stuff. Plenty of relabeling companies bought Chinese and Russian tubes and slapped their label on them. Those days are gone now. The only tubes made these days are strictly for audio and mostly guitarists at that. Don’t think there’s a way to fake tubes since there are so few manufacturers these days.
Jefffeith
New Member
Thought I’d offer my thoughts on the 6SN7 tubes I purchased for my Sweet 807. Klipsch Heresy IV are my speakers and my source is an iPad Pro (with Apple dongle DAC) playing Apple Music Lossless.
Subjective sound summary:
Subjective sound summary:
- Amperex 6SN7GTB: Nothing stands out with this one. Good overall. Neutral sound.
- GE 6SN7GTB (1950s): Dark sounding tube, rolled treble, strong bass. Relaxed sound. I love this tube.
- GE 6SN7GTB (1960s): I prefer the 1950s tube. This tube is more ‘esssy’ sounding than its older brother. I was disappointed.
- Lafayette Tall 6SN7GTB: Smooth and natural from top to bottom. Taller tube. Wish I could find more. None listed on eBay. Wonder who makes them?
- Linlai 6SN7: Modern style tube. Larger shape. Sounds excellent! Soundstage is great, more 3D with more space between instruments than the other tubes. After a few minutes I forgot about critically listening and just enjoyed the music. Balanced from top to bottom. More front to back depth. This may be the winner.
- RCA 6SN7GT: At first listen not as good as the RCA GTB version. Less bass and less musical overall. I put it back into its box.
- RCA 6SN7GTB: Neutral tube. Similar to GE but with more treble energy. Very nice tube. Not sure which I prefer but they both sound very good.
- Raytheon 6SN7GTB: My wife’s favorite. She feels it sounds clearest of all. I also think it sounds great. Lower midrange has a fullness that some of the other tubes don’t. I leave it in the amp often and enjoy.
- Sovtek 6SN7GT: Airy and atmospheric. Slightly less bass heft than the GE, RCA and Raytheon. If my system were bass heavy I might prefer this tube.
- Sylvania 6SN7GTB: Just did not sound as full and rich as the Raytheon, GE (1950) or RCA.
- Westinghouse 6SN7GT: This tube says Made in England on it and I was curious to hear it. It’s also the tallest tube in my collection so I thought it would sound similar to the Lafayette. Unfortunately, it sounded ‘off’ to me. Others online seem to love them. Tried them again and was underwhelmed.
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What was Dennis' response to your question using both tube types in the circuit?
Musictubes
Isaac
Some circuits are more flexible than others. Dennis says that you can use the 6sn7, 6sl7, and even 6bx7 as the input tube in the kt88 Firebottle. I’m not a fan of how the 6sl7 sounds in it but have had success with the 6bx7 and also the bl63.
Some of what “works” will depend on what output tubes you use. The kt88 Firebottle allows you to use anything from 6f6 to kt170 (though there’s no additional power past the kt88) by switching rectifiers.
Most of his amps are made with a single tube in mind but the kt88 version was made for and marketed as a tube rollers dream. I’ve had lots of fun with it!
robertkarma
New Member
My current limited experience with the 807 is highly positive. Ive been contantly impressed with unused or low hr. New Old Stock... with 'new' production tubes I have been more times let down than impressed.
This is just hours and hours of litening and making the transition from the el34 pentode(s) to the 807 beam triode.
So I just bought an adapter and adapted an el34/12au7 single ended amp into an 807/12ax7. And its great. I modified the feedback for the el34 long ago and kept it set there ever since, the 807 is having no problems at anything. I want more bass, but thats because I have open baffles which they do everyhting elegantly and always impressive, but not so much bass.
The previous tubes I tried are EH34 which have been good, really good at first until they got weaker and less impressive over time then gave popping noises sooner than expected But I got 500 hours at least out of them. They lasted,, meh alright. Before were jj el34s those were not great but tolerable for normal non critical listening. I would say acceptably basic.
I tried some russians cheap 6p3s on ebay - not listenable not tolerable the reviews were wrong, poorly matched and low power, low gain.
I tried the raved ts 7581a THEY WERE LOUSY THEY GOT SENT BACK and I thought this was a neocon twisted sick joke. Flat dull and crappy. They were less likable than the cheap russian tubes.
(Ive had psvane el34s on a whole other amp, liked thier sound quality but it needed NOS american made rectifier and 6sn7s.. that brought it up to its potential. Id say they sound like tubes sound and there good sometimes nuanced.)
The rca 807 pair not 'technically matched' are so far out of the park the best. The 807 iteself is likely very good despite manufacturer. Theyre BEAM triodes which means they can handle it all signal wise, and its high frequency rated and high voltage rated so not much stray abberations going on in the amplification section.
Its like dead nuts locked on, these recordings. Truthfully.
I know theres a superior 807 tube out there, higher gain and date code matched, Should one go out spend a bunch more money and get them all? Heck no, Not nessesary, These, what I have here, are LEGENDS OF THE PAST TRANSCENDING TIME. They were doing something very right, I dont know what, but great work RCA!!!
Shame shame on the market driving economy. Words cannot fully express.
Im listening to recordings Ive listened to on many other systems many other times, The RCA sound is so so accurate, dynamics are accurate, very high dynamically very fast. The tone is exactly right, Some tubes sound like the music is coming out of a toilet paper roll, but this tone, is highly refined smooth very good. The high range just tickles and soothes and is pleasantly painfully loud. No distortion, Even at high power the distortion is less. Not much of the high frequency is getting rolled off. Bass is pretty good, there is some low frequency break up but I think thats more of my speaker impedance loading open baffle situation. Wharefedale rs12 are my go to speakers, they are Extremely resolving if treated exactly right.
You need some really good speakers and engineering skills to get to where I am at with these 807's they are optimized in my system.
For yours, dont go out and buy these and expect them to sound great with just a tube swap.
It takes more than a tube swap to get to hifi status. rather H A F H or H A F S status.
With proper transformers and supporting circuitry why limit ones self to an el34? You can do it in style with 807's if you happen to find the right ones, OR do alot of tuning to get them in thier happy place.
IF you have an el34 amp that just doesnt do it for you anymore or you want to upgrade it to a triode to the 807's (the 5 vs 8 pinout thing), CONVERT IT! I would personally replace the sockets with high quality heavy gold plated ones, and add the top ceramic insulated lead with some teflon insulated wire. 807; worthy.
This is just hours and hours of litening and making the transition from the el34 pentode(s) to the 807 beam triode.
So I just bought an adapter and adapted an el34/12au7 single ended amp into an 807/12ax7. And its great. I modified the feedback for the el34 long ago and kept it set there ever since, the 807 is having no problems at anything. I want more bass, but thats because I have open baffles which they do everyhting elegantly and always impressive, but not so much bass.
The previous tubes I tried are EH34 which have been good, really good at first until they got weaker and less impressive over time then gave popping noises sooner than expected But I got 500 hours at least out of them. They lasted,, meh alright. Before were jj el34s those were not great but tolerable for normal non critical listening. I would say acceptably basic.
I tried some russians cheap 6p3s on ebay - not listenable not tolerable the reviews were wrong, poorly matched and low power, low gain.
I tried the raved ts 7581a THEY WERE LOUSY THEY GOT SENT BACK and I thought this was a neocon twisted sick joke. Flat dull and crappy. They were less likable than the cheap russian tubes.
(Ive had psvane el34s on a whole other amp, liked thier sound quality but it needed NOS american made rectifier and 6sn7s.. that brought it up to its potential. Id say they sound like tubes sound and there good sometimes nuanced.)
The rca 807 pair not 'technically matched' are so far out of the park the best. The 807 iteself is likely very good despite manufacturer. Theyre BEAM triodes which means they can handle it all signal wise, and its high frequency rated and high voltage rated so not much stray abberations going on in the amplification section.
Its like dead nuts locked on, these recordings. Truthfully.
I know theres a superior 807 tube out there, higher gain and date code matched, Should one go out spend a bunch more money and get them all? Heck no, Not nessesary, These, what I have here, are LEGENDS OF THE PAST TRANSCENDING TIME. They were doing something very right, I dont know what, but great work RCA!!!
Shame shame on the market driving economy. Words cannot fully express.
Im listening to recordings Ive listened to on many other systems many other times, The RCA sound is so so accurate, dynamics are accurate, very high dynamically very fast. The tone is exactly right, Some tubes sound like the music is coming out of a toilet paper roll, but this tone, is highly refined smooth very good. The high range just tickles and soothes and is pleasantly painfully loud. No distortion, Even at high power the distortion is less. Not much of the high frequency is getting rolled off. Bass is pretty good, there is some low frequency break up but I think thats more of my speaker impedance loading open baffle situation. Wharefedale rs12 are my go to speakers, they are Extremely resolving if treated exactly right.
You need some really good speakers and engineering skills to get to where I am at with these 807's they are optimized in my system.
For yours, dont go out and buy these and expect them to sound great with just a tube swap.
It takes more than a tube swap to get to hifi status. rather H A F H or H A F S status.
With proper transformers and supporting circuitry why limit ones self to an el34? You can do it in style with 807's if you happen to find the right ones, OR do alot of tuning to get them in thier happy place.
IF you have an el34 amp that just doesnt do it for you anymore or you want to upgrade it to a triode to the 807's (the 5 vs 8 pinout thing), CONVERT IT! I would personally replace the sockets with high quality heavy gold plated ones, and add the top ceramic insulated lead with some teflon insulated wire. 807; worthy.
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