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SX-1050... To Phono-Pre or Not to Phono-Pre?

gener8tr

gener8tr

Well-Known Member
That is my question...

I have a wonderful Pioneer SX-1050 that I use with a Yamaha PX-2 turntable, Shure V-15 Type IV cart and double-stacked Advents.

I love the overall layout and the sound is very nice, especially considering this entire rig is set-up in a rather small gameroom environment.

However, the phono section of the 1050 (while decent) is not stunning, and just not loud enough for my liking.

Would it be worth the $150.00 (or so) to invenst in a decent little phono pre-amp?

If so, what would you guys suggest?

Thanks!
 
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You shouldn't need a phono pre. Can't you just turn it up a little more. Seems like it should have plenty of power for the Advents. Something is amiss in my opinion as it should be plenty sufficient.
 
I can turn it up, certainly, but even at 10:00 on the dial it doesn't bring the house down (like I think it should).

I guess I'm just used to my little Sansui AU-317 rocking the house. Perhaps this is just a case whereby an integrated amp is (perhaps) better than a receiver?
 
look up the gain specifications and compare them.

sa-9500
sa-9500ii
sx-1050

hmmm. all are spec'd at 35.5 dB at 1 khz, 2.5mv in 150 mv out...

and the sa-9500 IS 35.5 at 1khz, I JUST worked on one of those.
 
I have found that, in general, vintage receivers have less gain in the phono department as compared to other inputs. Even the higher-powered receivers (e.g., CR 2020) lack a bit of punch in the phono stage.

Mind you - this is an anecdotal, non-scientific observation.

If you have a buddy with a phono pre, you may want to give that a whirl. You already know this, but don't plug the phono pre into the phono input on the Pioneer.

Ken
 
Does this have anything to do with the output level of the cart(s) you are using, vs. whatever carts they may have had in mind when designing the receiver's phono stage? Perhaps it's an impedance issue? Perhaps you need a modest step-up transformer or phono preamp?

Interesting. I rarely use my receivers' phono stages, preferring a separate preamp for phono, but after this thread I may just hook up the SX-1050 to see if I get the same results you are describing.
 
While the gain of the stages (35.5 db) may take in 2.5mv and make it 150mV, then the preamp section has to boost it, and then there is the sensitivity of the power amp, does the power amp need 500mv or 2v to drive it to full power output... I'm too fried to look it up right now.,..

But the Power amp's sensitivity can make a huge difference.

I remember that the SA-9100 put out 2v from the pre-out, while the amp-in may have only needed 500mV to make full output. When operated in the "normal" seitch position (as opposed to separated) there was a resistive voltage divider integrated into the switch.
 
gener8tr said:
That is my question...

I have a wonderful Pioneer SX-1050 that I use with a Yamaha PX-2 turntable, Shure V-15 Type IV cart and double-stacked Advents.

I love the overall layout and the sound is very nice, especially considering this entire rig is set-up in a rather small gameroom environment.

However, the phono section of the 1050 (while decent) is not stunning, and just not loud enough for my liking.

Would it be worth the $150.00 (or so) to invenst in a decent little phono pre-amp?

If so, what would you guys suggest?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Try a different cart on your TT before blaming the 1050. Some user have posted about low vol. with Shure carts even though your Shure V-15 Type IV is rated at 4mV/channel output. The higher the cart's output the more gain. Your stylus if worn out will give bad peformance also.
http://www.shure.com/stellent/group...ug/documents/web_resource/us_pro_v15IV_ug.pdf

Bad interconnects or incorrect ones (capacitance) if replaced will also cause a problem.
 
I have to turn my 1980 way, way up compared to the other inputs when playing the phono. I just turn it up, it doesn't matter where the volume dial is at, whats the wattage output say? To me it's just the dynamics of phono over the FM.
 
Why not try a different Receiver or amp with the turntable in question?? Then you can rule out the turntable or receiver problem!!! I have to turn mine up way high too . . . but I compared with other amps and the so called problem remains . . . and it sounds great to me . . .
 
I'm with DaWoofer on this one, I'm just going a bit further than say don't blame the SX. I'm guessing the operator is not comfortable turning the volume up past 10 o'clock when it can be turned will past 4 o'clock. There are differences in input and output levels as has been discussed. The Sony TA-2000 series preamps have adjustments on each input to allow getting the same volume for the same setting with any input. Very few units have this. So adjustment of the volume control is necessary to get that same volume level. Unless you need to go past about 1 o'clock, there is probably NOTHING WRONG. If you want to spend $150 instead of twisting the volume control that is ok, too.

I prefer to have the full volume of a system at about 1-2 o'clock. This gives plenty of volume adjustment in the lower range of the control and give a good bit of extra volume adjustment available for those quietly recorded passages, records, inputs and such. The position of the volume control as relates to house shaking volume is not a indicator of power output or quality of the unit.

If you are concerned about switching sources, changing records and such with the volume up high enough to shake the house (above 10 o'clock) then there are two options, use the muting (conveniently located next tot he volume control) or better yet, drop the volume completely so no one hears any miscues or false starts on tape or switching transients when going to a higher level input.

Is the double-stacked advents really double? Stacked advents implies 2 per side. Double stacked is more a sound reinforcement system than a stereo system.

Let us know the results of your trials.
 
Try adjusting the overhang on the cartridge. Move towards the front of head shell to add some crispness. Of course table is 100% level.
 
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