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SX-1250 & INFINITY KAPPA 7s

dacapo

SoundHound
Hello, Everyone
I'm new here and did a cursory search for the info I am looking for and did not see it, so pardon if this is already on the board.

My issue is that I blew the mids and tweeters of the Kappa 7s running the 1250 into them. I play it loud enough to hear myself playing my Ludwig drums in the same room. Could the acoustic drums have an external effect on the speakers?

I am wondering if the 1250 is too much for the Kappa 7s, or if the Kappas have just aged and can be restored. I found some Kappa tweeters and mids for sale on line and was looking for some advise on whether I should replace them and still be in good shape running the 1250. Someone elsewhere mentioned needing an amp, but why would I want to put even more power into the speakers when the 1250 is already a beast?

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.

Dino
 
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No, the SX-1250 is not too much for the Kappa 7s. In fact, it is the reverse: the Kappas are too much for the SX-1250. Or more accurately, they are too little...

To clarify: the Kappa 7 speakers belong to a category of speaker commonly called "amp killers". These speakers will, when driven hard, dip down to 1-2 ohms impedance. That is what I mean by "too little". Most amplifiers will work themselves nearly to death trying to "feed" enough current to satisfy the demands of these speakers.

You might make an analogy with someone trying to blow through a straw; almost anyone can blow through a thin straw, which offers a small channel with stiff resistance, but it takes a lot more lung power to keep blowing the same speed of air --and thus, a large volume of air (analogous to current) through a large, fat straw with low resistance (equivalent to low impedance here). It takes real "lung power" --i.e., a high-current-capable amp-- to handle such demands.

Please understand that a high-current capable amplifier is not the same thing as a speaker with high wattage output. Your SX-1250 is powerful, in the sense of putting out a lot of watts, but it is not capable of handling the demands of the Kappa speakers, especially if you turn the volume up. It just wasn't designed for it. Match it with a speaker that presents it with an impedance of say, 8 ohms or 6 ohms, and it will sing happily all day at high volumes. But let the impedance drop to 3, 2 or even 1 ohm, as can happen with old "amp killer" infinities, and that SX-1250 will be struggling to keep up, like a tired, drowning man in deep water.

When pushed to higher volumes, the power needed to move the woofers (against the air compressed in the sealed boxes) is substantial. In trying to keep up with these demands, the speaker resorts to "clipping", or chopping off the tops and bottoms of the characteristic waves. If you were to look at the output on an oscilloscope, you could clearly see the flattened "chopped off" wave tops, but you can't always hear this when it is beginning to happen. [With practice, you can learn to recognize it when it gets significant, but why do this, and risk your gear just to learn something you shouldn't hear, which you can avoid/prevent?] This clipping action puts severe demands on the tweeters, and soon "fries" them dead! It may also damage your amplifier (receiver).

Get a HIGH-CURRENT CAPABLE amp that can safely drive loads in the 1-2 amp range, and you can run those Kappas as loudly as you like, without worry. There are many such amps out there, including some models from Adcom, Krell, Soundcraftsmen, Ampzilla, and others...

But if you keep trying to drive those speakers with your receiver, you'll end up replacing many more tweeters (rare and costly, since they are no longer produced), and eventually ruin your receiver, too.

DO NOT try to pair up these units; it is like trying to use a volkswagon to pull an interstate trailer rig; just not an appropriate match, and such a mismatch will inevitably lead to catastrophe. If you MUST do so, ONLY play them at very low volume levels, but even that I wouldn't recommend, as the temptation to push it "just a little bit louder" until it is too much, is probably too great.

Get a different, more appropriate pair of speakers for your receiver.
Get a different, more appropriate amp for your speakers.

If you MUST have the 1250 sound through the 7's, then take the pre-out signal from the 1250, and run it through a power amp that can safely handle the 7s. That will give you the best of both.

Do some searches around here using words like "amp killers", "high current", etc... and you'll find a lot of information on this topic. Learn the easy way by reading up, and protect your gear. Otherwise, it's a certainty that you will learn the hard and costly way.

Incidentally, you have some GREAT quality gear with those two models. I have both, and like them both very much, as do many other happy owners around here! :yes: :music: :thmbsp:




Good luck! :thmbsp:
 
Wow - thanks for the info!
I was way off.
I thought the 1250 was the mother of all receivers -the monster, but if it is not enough to power the Kappa 7s, what is? You mentioned you have the
the 7s. What are you running to them (if you don't mind me asking)?
 
Wow - thanks for the info!
I was way off.
I thought the 1250 was the mother of all receivers -the monster, but if it is not enough to power the Kappa 7s, what is? You mentioned you have the
the 7s. What are you running to them (if you don't mind me asking)?

The SX-1250 is, indeed, one of the best and most famous/treasured "monster" amps. Some would say it is the most desirable one, overall. It just wasn't made with powering "amp killer" speakers in mind!

The issue here isn't really power or volume, but the design of the amplifier, and how it responds to loads. A garden hose may spray with plenty of force, up to a point. You can use a fire hose, barely-opened, to water the garden, too, but a fire hose will deliver more if you need it suddenly to put out a fire. Both work very well for their intended purposes, but the Kappas are sometimes infernos, so to speak, where most speakers remain gardens.

I have used Adcom 555 power amps with my Infinities, and just recently found a Soundcraftsmen MA5002 that also powers them nicely. There are other models that work, too, including a number of
professional" amplifiers; just search the threads that discuss "amp killer" speakers, and you'll find a number of suggestions. Others will probably chip in suggestions here, too.

Good luck! :thmbsp:
 
Amplifiers can only work at spec within their particular design parameters. Pioneer built the very best they could with a broad spectrum of speakers and sources in mind and available commonly at the time..and I must say they did a heck of a job....
 
Great analogy Arkay. :thmbsp:

I'm running my vintage Infinity's with a Carver pro amp. A PM-175 to be exact. At 175 professional watts it hasn't gone into clipping yet, but I haven't really had it past 12 o'clock. No need in my room. I will likely move them onto a Carver 1201 (about 400 watts I believe) eventually, just to be sure.
 
you might want to find an older big iron NAD amp, something from the power envelope series, with the soft clipping.
 
Of the top-5 receivers, which handles difficult loads best? 16.5 balked at Amazings when all 4 woofs were wired in parallel but didn't break a sweat with any Maggies or Infinity's I tried.

Anybody stress a 2385 to see its limits? I got to see tarior's G-9000 on AR-9's.

OTOH, separates existed long before receivers, and will be around longer.

But I sure like my TOTL 1250 and 16.5. At the moment, I'm running a Technics tuner, Yammi Pre, into the 16.5's amp section.
 
For speakers the don't dip below 4 ohms, the SX-1250 is a beast. But there really isn't ANY receiver out there that likes to see a load below 4 ohms. In fact, there aren't too many dedicated amp either.:no:

There is a short list of amps that I would consider using with Infinities, for fear of blowing up the amp..
 
Of the top-5 receivers, which handles difficult loads best? 16.5 balked at Amazings when all 4 woofs were wired in parallel but didn't break a sweat with any Maggies or Infinity's I tried.

Anybody stress a 2385 to see its limits? I got to see tarior's G-9000 on AR-9's.

OTOH, separates existed long before receivers, and will be around longer.

But I sure like my TOTL 1250 and 16.5. At the moment, I'm running a Technics tuner, Yammi Pre, into the 16.5's amp section.

AR9's are not a tough load to run..:no:

They just benefit from more power. You could run them off a 60WPC receiver without a problem. If push came to shove, they wouldn't damage the amp, you'd clip the amp and smoke a tweeter.
 
Adcom, some Carvers, some Yamahas, Soundcraftsman, Forte, Parasound, Bryston, and high-end SS iron from Threshold, Krell, Levinson, etc.
 
Well, rather then spouting off model numbers, I would just caution you to make sure that the amp is high current. Most tell-tale signs of a high current amp are 1. weight, and 2. listed specs down to 4 and possibly 2 ohms.

That does not necesarily mean high wattage.:nono:

I have some RSIIIB's (the speaker to the right in Tedricks Avatar) that I gave to my dad after I refurbed them. He is running them nicely off a Sansui BA-3000 that has been recapped.
 
Thanks everyone.
I will continue to do the research and searched on EB and CL. First, I need to get replacement hi and mids for the 7s, then I will track down an appropriate amp.

I don't see Marantz listed in the recs, even from the MFan. Should I avoid?
 
Thanks everyone.
I will continue to do the research and searched on EB and CL. First, I need to get replacement hi and mids for the 7s, then I will track down an appropriate amp.

I don't see Marantz listed in the recs, even from the MFan. Should I avoid?

No, there are several amps that could get it done. They wouldn't be cheap though..:no:
 
Just picked up an Adcom GFA-555 on ~bay for $221.50 (it's huge!)

Now I just need to replace the meds and highs (and tune the ludwigs)

Thanks!
 
AR9's are not a tough load to run..:no:

They just benefit from more power. You could run them off a 60WPC receiver without a problem. If push came to shove, they wouldn't damage the amp, you'd clip the amp and smoke a tweeter.

The Sansui does get pretty warm if I try to use it by itself on the AR9s.:D Usually, though, I used the G9K for the upper end and a Denon POA 2400A for the bottom end. It's pretty easy to overdrive an amp into AR9s, but you're right, about the only thing that happens is a dead tweeter.

Back on topic, that Adcom GFA-555 is an excellent amp and should be great for those Infinities.
 
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