SX-650 re-cap parts list - how does it look?

[Uncle Bambi]

I picked up a nice little SX-650 a while back, and embolden by my success with the SX-838 that you guys helped me fix , decided to do a re-cap on it.

It had a bad power/speaker select switch that had a snapped shaft, but I found a donor and followed MTF's instructions to rehabilitate with fantastic results. Other than the bad switch and some burned out bulbs, the unit does not have any other operational faults manifesting themselves.

I did a bunch of searching and couldn't find a parts list, so I made one from scratch using the service manual as a guide. I noticed that, while there are no issues with the unit, it does have the dreaded 725's and 726's on the equalizer board - so I plan on replacing those preemptively.

I'm posting the parts list here for 3 reasons:

1) I'd like to get it vetted before ordering.
2) I thought it would be helpful to future 650 enthusiasts to have something to search for.
3) I'm soliciting any additional thoughts/advice re: what other parts might be good to change while I'm in there.

Please take a look and if you have the time and inclination, I'd love to hear what you think:

equalizer amp
awk-065 c3 100 10 cea 100 10 647-UPW1A101MDD
awk-065 q1 2sa725-g 512-KSA992FBU
awk-065 q2 2sa725-g 512-KSA992FBU
awk-065 q3 2sc1313 512-KSC1845EBU
awk-065 q4 2sa726-g 512-KSA992FBU

tone control
awg-049 c1 0.47 35 csza 0.47 50 667-ECQ-V1H474JL3
awg-049 c2 0.47 35 csza 0.47 50 667-ECQ-V1H474JL3
awg-049 c5 220 25 cea 220 35 647-UPW1V221MPD
awg-049 c6 220 25 cea 220 35 647-UPW1V221MPD
awg-049 c9 47 6 cea 47 10 647-UPW1A470MDD6
awg-049 c10 47 6 cea 47 10 647-UPW1A470MDD6
awg-049 c13 4.7 25 ceanl 4.7 25 647-UKL1E4R7KDDANA
awg-049 c14 4.7 25 ceanl 4.7 25 647-UKL1E4R7KDDANA

power amp 1
gwh-101 c1 1 25 csza 1 50 647-UKL1H010KDDANA
gwh-101 c2 1 25 csza 1 50 647-UKL1H010KDDANA
gwh-101 c7 220 6 cea 220 10 647-UPW1A221MED
gwh-101 c8 220 6 cea 220 10 647-UPW1A221MED
gwh-101 c9 47 35 cea 47 35 647-UPW1V470MED1TD
gwh-101 c10 47 35 cea 47 35 647-UPW1V470MED1TD
gwh-101 c13 220 6 cea 220 10 647-UPW1A221MED
gwh-101 c14 220 6 cea 220 10 647-UPW1A221MED

power amp 2
gwr-101 c21 0.22 10 cssa 0.22 10 667-ECQ-V1H474JL3
gwr-101 c22 0.22 10 cssa 0.22 10 667-ECQ-V1H474JL3
gwr-101 c23 220 16 cea 220 35 647-UPW1V221MPD
gwr-101 c24 100 35 cea 100 50 647-UPW1J101MPD
gwr-101 c25 100 35 cea 100 50 647-UPW1J101MPD
gwr-101 c26 330 6 cea 330 10 647-UPW1A331MPD
gwr-101 c27 330 6 cea 330 10 647-UPW1A331MPD
gwr-101 c28 4.7 35 cea 4.7 35 647-UPW1V4R7MDD
gwr-101 c29 220 16 cea 220 35 647-UPW1V221MPD
gwr-101 c30 100 35 cea 100 50 647-UPW1J101MPD
gwr-101 c31 100 50 cea 100 50 647-UPW1J101MPD
gwr-101 c33 3.3 50 cea 3.3 50 647-UPW1H3R3MDD
gwr-101 c34 100 50 cea 100 50 647-UPW1J101MPD
gwr-101 c35 100 50 cea 100 50 647-UPW1J101MPD
gwr-101 c36 220 16 cea 220 35 647-UPW1V221MPD
gwr-101 c37 220 50 cea 220 50 647-UPW1J221MPD6
gwr-101 c38 220 50 cea 220 50 647-UPW1J221MPD6
gwr-101 q9 2sc945 512-KSC945CLTA
gwr-101 q14 2sc1647 512-KSD1616ALBU
gwr-101 q15 2sc1384 512-KSC2690AYS

 

[Yankee Dog]

"it does have the dreaded 725's and 726's on the equalizer board"

XSorry, I have been spending alot of time with some marantz gear this winter and am not familiar with the "725's and 726's" can you explain the issue?

Thanks for the 750 list. YD

 

[Uncle Bambi]

"it does have the dreaded 725's and 726's on the equalizer board"

XSorry, I have been spending alot of time with some marantz gear this winter and am not familiar with the "725's and 726's" can you explain the issue?

Thanks for the 750 list. YD

All I know is what I learned from reading this forum, and more specifically from a recent troubleshooting thread I opened. According to Markthefixer and a few others, the 725's and 726 transistors that Pioneer (and presumably others) used are problematic and that it would be wise to change them out as a preventive measure. This came from a discussion about the 2sc1451 transistor, which apparently is a real PITA and needs to be eradicated.

The discussion is in this thread:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=349314

 

[markthefixer]

List looks good. didn't check actual cap values vs stock no's... but upw ukl and film cap selections look fine.
transistors look fine too, had to dig on the 2sc1647, but it is confirmed too.

 

[Uncle Bambi]

Thanks, Mark.

I learned how to do the cap cross-referencing on the last go-round, with your and others guidance. The transistor part number cross matching is still a mystery to me, so what I've been doing is advanced Google searching in this forum on the stock number, figuring there is a good chance it was used across the product line and will pop up. So far, so good. I'm saving everything to a master list, assuming that I will need them in the future.

Is there a transistor cross-matching tutorial somewhere?

 

[Uncle Bambi]

Successful re-cap - ancillary questions

Ok - the re-cap is completed and the 725/726 transistors were preemptively replaced without issue. All pots/switches Deox'ed and working perfectly. All burned out lights have been addressed, and the newly rebuilt power/speaker select switch is working flawlessly.

Couple of questions/concerns, though.....

1) I see nowhere in the service manual that specifies setting DC offset and idle. I have about 27mv on the speaker lugs. Not adjustable on this model? Do I need to care?

2) Many of the caps I replaced were bulged at the bottom, and some showed evidence of light leaking. I did not re-cap the tuner board assembly, but I'm very concerned that it would be a mistake not to. What are the chances that I can do a re-cap without screwing up how the tuner works? good, slim, or none? I do not have an oscilloscope.

 

[goat67]

Ok - the re-cap is completed and the 725/726 transistors were preemptively replaced without issue. All pots/switches Deox'ed and working perfectly. All burned out lights have been addressed, and the newly rebuilt power/speaker select switch is working flawlessly.

Couple of questions/concerns, though.....

1) I see nowhere in the service manual that specifies setting DC offset and idle. I have about 27mv on the speaker lugs. Not adjustable on this model? Do I need to care?

2) Many of the caps I replaced were bulged at the bottom, and some showed evidence of light leaking. I did not re-cap the tuner board assembly, but I'm very concerned that it would be a mistake not to. What are the chances that I can do a re-cap without screwing up how the tuner works? good, slim, or none? I do not have an oscilloscope.

1.) Nope no adjustment.

2.) Recapping a tuner is problematic if you do not have the equipment to do a Tuner alignment.

The reason is lets say you have an original cap of 22uf with a tolerance of 5% which is being very generous so it can range from 20.9 to 23.1 now multiple this across all caps.

So when new it was aligned so now you change out all the caps the chances of it being in its best alignment is slim and none.

So generally if it is working do not mess with it. It does go against my better judgment but that is the way it goes.

 

[Uncle Bambi]

1.) Nope no adjustment.

2.) Recapping a tuner is problematic if you do not have the equipment to do a Tuner alignment.

The reason is lets say you have an original cap of 22uf with a tolerance of 5% which is being very generous so it can range from 20.9 to 23.1 now multiple this across all caps.

So when new it was aligned so now you change out all the caps the chances of it being in its best alignment is slim and none.

So generally if it is working do not mess with it. It does go against my better judgment but that is the way it goes.

Thanks for the quick answers. I'll leave the tuner alone then, and hope the caps live on for a while longer. It bothers me, though - the one's that came out of the rest of the unit were in pretty sorry shape.

 

[goat67]

Thanks for the quick answers. I'll leave the tuner alone then, and hope the caps live on for a while longer. It bothers me, though - the one's that came out of the rest of the unit were in pretty sorry shape.

Well if you see any caps that are leaking then you should change them out.

Also if you do a cap at a time and recheck tuner operation it might be OK.

The main thing is you must look at the schematic and identify caps that will not effect alignment.

After looking at the schematic I would feel pretty confident in doing a recap of the tuner section only a few small values that look to be critical if you replace with films you should be OK

Also I noticed you did not replace any caps on the AWE-073 not all of this board is the tuner.

So put together a list and I will look it over.

And suggest caps that will be safe to replace.

 

[Uncle Bambi]

........

Also I noticed you did not replace any caps on the AWE-073 not all of this board is the tuner.

So put together a list and I will look it over.

And suggest caps that will be safe to replace.

Thanks so much for taking the time to look at my work, I appreciate it. I'll get a cap list together and post back.

 

[markthefixer]

Thanks so much for taking the time to look at my work, I appreciate it. I'll get a cap list together and post back.

If you don't have to physically move the tuner board to get at the caps your odds are better.

pins 9 - 16 on the ha1196 should be avoided those are stereo decoder operation caps, although only vr5 (vco freq) and vr4 separation would be messed up.

vr5 vco can be rough set by finding the off to on stereo light points in cw and ccw rotation and split the difference. NOT on to off, always off to on in both directions.

vr4 separation really isn't adjustable without a mutiplex rf generator.

c aps around the 1138 leave alone except power bypass caps.

i will check, if you can wait.

 

[Uncle Bambi]

If you don't have to physically move the tuner board to get at the caps your odds are better.

pins 9 - 16 on the ha1196 should be avoided those are stereo decoder operation caps, although only vr5 (vco freq) and vr4 separation would be messed up.

vr5 vco can be rough set by finding the off to on stereo light points in cw and ccw rotation and split the difference. NOT on to off, always off to on in both directions.

vr4 separation really isn't adjustable without a mutiplex rf generator.

c aps around the 1138 leave alone except power bypass caps.

i will check, if you can wait.

Thanks - yes, I can wait.

It looks to me that I de-solder most (if not all) the caps from the bottom, while having access to pull them out from the top without removing or moving the AWF-075 tuner/main board.

Question 1 - I read a thread where the fellow re-capped a receiver and changed out the little blue solid (tantalum?) capacitors, suggesting that a sonic improvement could be gained. Should I change those out while I'm in there?

Question 2 - On HA1196:
I see the following capacitors that have direct connections to HA1196:

c37 on pins 10/11
c34 & c35 in parallel on pins14/15
c36 on pin 16
c108 (mylar) on pins 13/2

The c34 thru c37 are the little blue tantalums, although the SM calls them electrolytic. c108 is mylar. So, it appears that I can leave them be without fear of leakage. That leaves c26 on pin 12, which is labeled as ceramic. Looks like I can safely leave these all be and not worry about them failing later, eh?

On HA1138:
I see 5 electrolytic caps in close proximity, and studying the schematic reveals that at least 5 of those - c58, c61, c62, and c64 are definitely directly connected to HA1138. The last one, a cap with the value of 220uf/6.3v, I suspect to be c70 but cannot locate it on the fuzzy diagram that I have.

These, I do not touch? I hate to ask a stupid question, but I do not know - how do I identify the "power bypass" caps?

 

[Uncle Bambi]

........

Also I noticed you did not replace any caps on the AWE-073 not all of this board is the tuner.

So put together a list and I will look it over.

And suggest caps that will be safe to replace.

Ok - my tuner board is marked "Tuner and AF Assembly, AWE-75A". I do not see an AWE-73 - typo?

Anyway, below is the list for the whole board. A lot of the small value one's are listed as Electrolytic in the SM, but look to be those little blue tantalum type. Most of those are clustered around and connected to the chips the MTF pointed out, so I'm thinking "leave those alone":

tuner and AF assembly
awe-075a c23 4.7 35 cea 4.7 35 647-UPW1V470MED1TD
awe-075a c24 10 16 csza 10 16 647-UKL1C100KDDANA
awe-075a c29 4.7 35 cea 4.7 35 647-UPW1V470MED1TD
awe-075a c30 0.47 50 cea 0.47 50 667-ECQ-V1H474JLW
awe-075a c31 10 16 csza 10 16 647-UKL1C100KDDANA
awe-075a c33 470 16 cea 470 16 647-URZ1C471MPD
awe-075a c34 1 25 csza 1 50 647-UKL1H010KDDANA
awe-075a c35 3.3 10 csza 3.3 50 647-UKL1H3R3KDDANA
awe-075a c37 0.22 25 csza 0.22 50 667-ECQ-V1H224JL5
awe-075a c39 10 16 cea 10 16 647-UMT1C100MDD
awe-075a c40 10 16 cea 10 16 647-UMT1C100MDD
awe-075a c43 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awe-075a c44 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awe-075a c45 0.1 25 csza 0.1 50 647-QYS1H104JTP
awe-075a c46 0.1 25 csza 0.1 50 647-QYS1H104JTP
awe-075a c47 0.1 25 csza 0.1 50 647-QYS1H104JTP
awe-075a c48 0.1 25 csza 0.1 50 647-QYS1H104JTP
awe-075a c49 0.47 25 csza 0.47 50 667-ECQ-V1H474JLW
awe-075a c50 0.47 25 csza 0.47 50 667-ECQ-V1H474JLW
awe-075a c58 10 16 cea 10 16 647-UMT1C100MDD
awe-075a c61 47 6 cea 47 10 647-UPW1A470MDD6
awe-075a c62 4.7 35 cea 4.7 35 647-UPW1V470MED1TD
awe-075a c64 220 16 cea 220 35 647-UPW1V221MPD
awe-075a c70 220 6 cea 220 10 647-UPW1A221MED
awe-075a c76 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awe-075a c77 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awe-075a c84 100 6 cea 100 10 647-UPW1A101MDD
awe-075a c85 100 6 cea 100 10 647-UPW1A101MDD
awe-075a c90 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awe-075a c91 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awe-075a c94 220 25 cea 220 35 647-UPW1V221MPD
awe-075a c95 220 25 cea 220 35 647-UPW1V221MPD
awe-075a c100 1 25 csza 1 50 647-UKL1H010KDDANA
awe-075a c101 47 10 cea 47 10 647-UPW1A470MDD6
awe-075a c104 0.1 35 csza 0.1 50 647-QYS1H104JTP
awe-075a c105 100 35 cea 100 63 647-UPW1J101MPD

 

[goat67]

Ok - my tuner board is marked "Tuner and AF Assembly, AWE-75A". I do not see an AWE-73 - typo?

Anyway, below is the list for the whole board. A lot of the small value one's are listed as Electrolytic in the SM, but look to be those little blue tantalum type. Most of those are clustered around and connected to the chips the MTF pointed out, so I'm thinking "leave those alone":

What stays original

tuner and AF assembly

awe-075a c34 1 25 csza 1 50 647-UKL1H010KDDANA
awe-075a c35 3.3 10 csza 3.3 50 647-UKL1H3R3KDDANA
awe-075a c37 0.22 25 csza 0.22 50 667-ECQ-V1H224JL5

awe-075a c61 47 6 cea 47 10 647-UPW1A470MDD6
awe-075a c62 4.7 35 cea 4.7 35 647-UPW1V470MED1TD

Yes it was a typo
What I would replace the ones in Bold I would like Mark's confirmation.

HA1137
awe-075a c23 4.7 35 cea 4.7 35 647-UPW1V470MED1TD
awe-075a c24 10 16 csza 10 16 647-UKL1C100KDDANA

awe-075a c29 4.7 35 cea 4.7 35 647-UPW1V470MED1TD
awe-075a c30 0.47 50 cea 0.47 50 667-ECQ-V1H474JLW


awe-075a c31 10 16 csza 10 16 647-UKL1C100KDDANA

HA1196
awe-075a c33 470 16 cea 470 16 647-URZ1C471MPD
awe-075a c39 10 16 cea 10 16 647-UMT1C100MDD
awe-075a c40 10 16 cea 10 16 647-UMT1C100MDD
awe-075a c43 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awe-075a c44 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA

Q7 Q8
awe-075a c45 0.1 25 csza 0.1 50 647-QYS1H104JTP
awe-075a c46 0.1 25 csza 0.1 50 647-QYS1H104JTP
awe-075a c47 0.1 25 csza 0.1 50 647-QYS1H104JTP
awe-075a c48 0.1 25 csza 0.1 50 647-QYS1H104JTP
awe-075a c49 0.47 25 csza 0.47 50 667-ECQ-V1H474JLW
awe-075a c50 0.47 25 csza 0.47 50 667-ECQ-V1H474JLW

HA1138
awe-075a c58 10 16 cea 10 16 647-UMT1C100MDD

awe-075a c64 220 16 cea 220 35 647-UPW1V221MPD

awe-075a c70 220 6 cea 220 10 647-UPW1A221MED

Equalizer Section
awe-075a c76 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awe-075a c77 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awe-075a c84 100 6 cea 100 10 647-UPW1A101MDD
awe-075a c85 100 6 cea 100 10 647-UPW1A101MDD
awe-075a c90 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awe-075a c91 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awe-075a c94 220 25 cea 220 35 647-UPW1V221MPD
awe-075a c95 220 25 cea 220 35 647-UPW1V221MPD
awe-075a c100 1 25 csza 1 50 647-UKL1H010KDDANA
awe-075a c101 47 10 cea 47 10 647-UPW1A470MDD6
awe-075a c104 0.1 35 csza 0.1 50 647-QYS1H104JTP
awe-075a c105 100 35 cea 100 63 647-UPW1J101MPD

I did not check part availability

 

[Uncle Bambi]

What I would replace the ones in Bold I would like Mark's confirmation.

I just want to clarify, so I know I understand - you say do not touch these:

awe-075a c34 1 25 csza 1 50 647-UKL1H010KDDANA
awe-075a c35 3.3 10 csza 3.3 50 647-UKL1H3R3KDDANA
awe-075a c37 0.22 25 csza 0.22 50 667-ECQ-V1H224JL5

awe-075a c61 47 6 cea 47 10 647-UPW1A470MDD6
awe-075a c62 4.7 35 cea 4.7 35 647-UPW1V470MED1TD

Also, change only the one's you listed, and wait for Mark's confirmation on the one's in bold.

As far as parts availability - if they're on my list, I pulled only from stocked Mouser items.

 

[goat67]

I just want to clarify, so I know I understand - you say do not touch these:

awe-075a c34 1 25 csza 1 50 647-UKL1H010KDDANA
awe-075a c35 3.3 10 csza 3.3 50 647-UKL1H3R3KDDANA
awe-075a c37 0.22 25 csza 0.22 50 667-ECQ-V1H224JL5

awe-075a c61 47 6 cea 47 10 647-UPW1A470MDD6
awe-075a c62 4.7 35 cea 4.7 35 647-UPW1V470MED1TD

Also, change only the one's you listed, and wait for Mark's confirmation on the one's in bold.

As far as parts availability - if they're on my list, I pulled only from stocked Mouser items.

Yes you understand correctly. The five caps still in the quote do not replace.
The ones in Bold I would like Mark to verify.

You could order all of them and just not replace them if Mark advises against it.

 

[Uncle Bambi]

Yes you understand correctly. The five caps still in the quote do not replace.
The ones in Bold I would like Mark to verify.

You could order all of them and just not replace them if Mark advises against it.

OK - I'll order the whole pile (they're cheap), and wait for Mark's opinion....

 

[Uncle Bambi]

OK -

I'm moving down the list, and replacing one cap at a time and testing after each one. So far, so good. I'm changing out the "maybe's" on the list as I go - C23, C24, C31, C34, C35, C37, C58, and C64. I haven't done 23, 24, and 31 yet, but the others have been changed with no apparent ill effect.

One stumbling block - I needed two 4.7uf 35v caps, and mistakenly ordered 47uf 35v caps. D'oh! I have some 4.7uf 25v caps on-hand, but I'm thinking I shouldn't chance it. I'll hit Radio Shack tomorrow and see if they can save me, unless you guys think I can cheat a whole 10v under for a general purpose cea replacement - the caps in question are C23 on the "maybe list" and 4.7uf 35v C62, on the "don't touch" list.

Of the one's on the "don't touch" list, only two are electrolytic - C61 and C62. I'd like to change them out.... can someone opine as to whether this is a worthwhile gamble? Am I playing with fire here? C62 is a 4.7uf 35v cap and all I have on-hand is a 4.7 25v for a replacement, but as I said in the previous paragraph I can probably get a proper value one at RS if necessary.

There are two others that I cannot get to (C101 and C105, maybe? I can't tell), under the function switch by the Tape Monitor switches. One is directly under the function switch shaft, and I don't see any way to get at it. The one right next to the Tape Monitor switch I might be able to get to, but it is going to be very difficult.

All in all I'm glad I went ahead with re-capping the tuner board, as many of the originals are bulged on the bottom and I've found a couple that are seeping.

 

[davros]

Thanks for the play by play, I have a 650 that I plan on recapping (my first), and following you is giving me an idea of what I have in store. I can't wait to here your feedback on the final result.

 

[goat67]

OK -

I'm moving down the list, and replacing one cap at a time and testing after each one. So far, so good. I'm changing out the "maybe's" on the list as I go - C23, C24, C31, C34, C35, C37, C58, and C64. I haven't done 23, 24, and 31 yet, but the others have been changed with no apparent ill effect.

One stumbling block - I needed two 4.7uf 35v caps, and mistakenly ordered 47uf 35v caps. D'oh! I have some 4.7uf 25v caps on-hand, but I'm thinking I shouldn't chance it. I'll hit Radio Shack tomorrow and see if they can save me, unless you guys think I can cheat a whole 10v under for a general purpose cea replacement - the caps in question are C23 on the "maybe list" and 4.7uf 35v C62, on the "don't touch" list.

Of the one's on the "don't touch" list, only two are electrolytic - C61 and C62. I'd like to change them out.... can someone opine as to whether this is a worthwhile gamble? Am I playing with fire here? C62 is a 4.7uf 35v cap and all I have on-hand is a 4.7 25v for a replacement, but as I said in the previous paragraph I can probably get a proper value one at RS if necessary.

There are two others that I cannot get to (C101 and C105, maybe? I can't tell), under the function switch by the Tape Monitor switches. One is directly under the function switch shaft, and I don't see any way to get at it. The one right next to the Tape Monitor switch I might be able to get to, but it is going to be very difficult.

All in all I'm glad I went ahead with re-capping the tuner board, as many of the originals are bulged on the bottom and I've found a couple that are seeping.

Sounds like it is going pretty good. I hate it when I order the wrong parts.
I sometimes double up on caps of common values just to build up a stock, but still it seems I do not have the right cap anyway.


C62 is for the AM tuner looks like 25v cap would be fine measure actual
voltage.

C23 is for FM muting looks like working voltage is around 22v so that is why a 35v was specified. If you like measure the voltage across the cap to see what the actual working voltage is check with FM mute in and out.

As far as C101 and C105 these for the MIC circuit only come into play if a microphone is used.