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SX-939 Poor "muddy" sound in left Channel- need help

SCsoundguy

New Member
Hello,
This is my first time posting but I have been following much of the great advice here for a couple of years. I grew up in my dad's TV/Electronics repair shop and have recently gotten back into vintage equipment. I need some help with a 939 rebuild project for my son. I picked up the unit early this year from the Goodwill auction site. When I received it I did not spend any time on it, just made sure it played sound from the Aux and FM. All seemed to work okay so I started on my rebuild. I focused mostly on the signal path. I detoxed/cleaned all, replaced caps, transistors, and most diodes on the Control board, Eq board, power amp assy. rebuilt the protection board including relay, the power supply board, main caps and replaced the output transistors. I basically followed MFT rebuild plan. I did a DBT after each board and checked for sound from both channels. I have set the idle current and DC offset, both adjusted with not problems. However, now that my masterpice is done I have an issue. The left channel sounds slightly "muddy" for lack of a better term. This could have been there from the beginning but now I have a real problem to solve.

I have disconnected the pre-outs and fed in a signal to just the amp section. It sounds great. So, I have a pre-amp problem. I pulled out the O-scope and started injecting signals from 100HZ, 500, 1000, 5000, 10,000 and 15,000. Everything was checked with the tone switch off. I compared the signals from each channel and they fall right on top of each other. I don't see any distortion on the wave forms and amplitude of both channels is the same. So, I tell myself that I really don't have a problem. I connect the preamp and amp back together and it still sounds the same. I must me missing something but I am not sure what it is. I started comparing signals at the pre-amp output and worked back to the control board. In and out of the control board looks fine. Anyone have any ideas?
 
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First, we need an EXACT list of everything that has been changed, and what was used to replace it. concentrate on the preamp section.
Basically all e-caps and transistors should be new.

Also verify ALL power supply voltages.

The power amp has not been completely exonerated yet, the preamp output needs to be fed to another amp and verified as muddy.
as well as crossed left to right and have the distortion move to the other channel.
 
Mark,
Thank you for the quick response. I'll get the exact list tomorrow along with the supply voltages. I will also try try the preamp swap. Back to you soon.
 
Here is the replacement list.

Symbol Value Voltage/Desc Mouser p/n

AWF-013 Equalizer Amplifier
C1 2.2UF 25V 647-UKL1H2R2KDDANA
C2 2.2UF 25V 647-UKL1H2R2KDDANA
C5 470UF 6V 647-UKL0J471MPD
C6 470UF 6V 647-UKL0J471MPD
C9 100UF 10v
C10 100UF 10v
C11 10UF 10V 647-UKL1C100MDDANATD
C12 10UF 10V 647-UKL1C100MDDANATD
C19 100UF 25V 647-UKL1E101KPDANATA
C20 100UF 25V 647-UKL1E101KPDANATA
C21 220UF 16V 647-UKL1C221KPDANA
Q1 2SA725 KSA992FBU 512-KSA992FBU
Q2 2SA725 KSA992FBU 512-KSA992FBU
Q3 2SA725 KSA992FBU 512-KSA992FBU
Q4 2SA725 KSA992FBU 512-KSA992FBU
Q5 2SC1313 KSC1845EBU 512-KSC1845EBU
Q6 2SC1313 KSC1845EBU 512-KSC1845EBU
Q7 2SC1313 KSC1845EBU 512-KSC1845EBU
Q8 2SC1313 KSC1845EBU 512-KSC1845EBU

AWG-027 Control Amplifier
C1 .33UF 25V 647-UKL1HR33KDDANA
C2 .33UF 25V 647-UKL1HR33KDDANA
C7 100UF 10V 647-UPW1E101MED
C8 100UF 10V 647-UPW1E101MED
C13 2.2UF 25V 647-UKL1H2R2KDDANA
C14 2.2UF 25V 647-UKL1H2R2KDDANA
C15 4.7UF 35V 647-UPW1V4R7MDD
C16 4.7UF 35V 647-UPW1V4R7MDD
C23 4.7UF 25V 647-UKL1H4R7KDDANA
C24 4.7UF 25V 647-UKL1H4R7KDDANA
C25 10UF 16V 647-UPW1E100MDD6
C26 10UF 16V 647-UPW1E100MDD6
C29 100UF 10V 647-UPW1E101MED
C30 100UF 10V 647-UPW1E101MED
C31 4.7UF 35V 647-UPW1V4R7MDD
C32 4.7UF 35V 647-UPW1V4R7MDD
C39 4.7UF 25V 647-UKL1H4R7KDDANA
C40 4.7UF 25V 647-UKL1H4R7KDDANA
C41 10UF 16V 647-UPW1E100MDD6
C42 10UF 16V 647-UPW1E100MDD6
C45 100UF 10V 647-UPW1E101MED
C46 100UF 10V 647-UPW1E101MED
C47 2.2UF 25V 647-UKL1H2R2KDDANA
C48 2.2UF 25V 647-UKL1H2R2KDDANA
C49 100UF 16V 647-UPW1E101MED
C50 100UF 16V 647-UPW1E101MED
C51 100UF 16V 647-UPW1E101MED
C52 100UF 16V 647-UPW1E101MED
Q1 2SA725 KSA992FBU 512-KSA992FBU
Q2 2SA725 KSA992FBU 512-KSA992FBU
Q3 2SC1312 KSC1845EBU 512-KSC1845EBU
Q4 2SC1312 KSC1845EBU 512-KSC1845EBU
Q5 2SC1312 KSC1845EBU 512-KSC1845EBU
Q6 2SC1312 KSC1845EBU 512-KSC1845EBU
Q7 2SC1312 KSC1845EBU 512-KSC1845EBU
Q8 2SC1312 KSC1845EBU 512-KSC1845EBU

AWH-030 Power Amplifier
C1 .47UF 25V 647-UKL1HR47KDDANA
C2 .47UF 25V 647-UKL1HR47KDDANA
C3 1UF 25V 647-UKL1H010KDDANATD
C4 1UF 25V 647-UKL1H010KDDANATD
C5 33UF 16V 647-UPW1C330MDD
C6 33UF 16V 647-UPW1C330MDD
C11 330UF 10V 647-UPW1A331MPD
C12 330UF 10V 647-UPW1A331MPD
VR1 10K Trimmer 652-3386H-1-103LF
VR2 10K Trimmer 652-3386H-1-103LF
VR3 100Ohm Trimmer 652-3386H-1-101LF
VR4 100Ohm Trimmer 652-3386H-1-101LF

Q1 2SA726 512-KSA992FBU
Q2 2SA726 512-KSA992FBU
Q3 2SA726 512-KSA992FBU
Q4 2SA726 512-KSA992FBU
Q5 2sa809 512-KSA1381estu
Q6 2sa810 512-KSA1381estu
Q7 2SC1451 512-KSC3503dstu
Q8 2SC1451 512-KSC3503dstu
Q9 2SD381 512-KSC2073TU
Q10 2SD381 512-KSC2073TU
Q11 2SB536 512-KSA940TU_Q
Q12 2SB536 512-KSA940TU_Q

D1 1S2473 512-1N4148
D2 1S2473 512-1N4148
D3 1S2473 512-1N4148
D4 1S2473 512-1N4148
D7 1S2473 512-1N4148
D8 1S2473 512-1N4148

AWM-062-0 Protection Circuit
C1 .22UF 10V 647-UKL1HR22KDDANA
C2 .22UF 10V 647-UKL1HR22KDDANA
C3 330UF 6V 647-UPW1A331MPD
C4 330UF 6V 647-UPW1A331MPD
C5 4.7UF 25V 647-UPW1V4R7MDD
C6 100UF 16V 647-UPW1E101MED
Q1 2SC869 512-KSC1845FTA
Q2 2SC869 512-KSC1845FTA
Q3 2SC945 512-KSD1616AGBU
Q4 2SC945 512-KSD1616AGBU
Q5 2SA733 512-KSA733CLTA
Q6 2SC945 512-KSD1616AGBU
Q7 2SC1384 512-KSC2690AYS
D1 1S2472 512-1N4148
D2 1S2472 512-1N4148
D3 1S2472 512-1N4148
D4 1S2472 512-1N4148
D5 1S2472 512-1N4148
D6 1S2473 512-1N4148
D7 1S2473 512-1N4148
D8 1S2473 512-1N4148

RELAY 653-MY4-DC24

AWR-052-0 Power Supply
C11 47UF 63V 647-UPW2A470MPD
C12 47UF 50V 647-UPW2A470MPD
C13 470UF 80V 647-UPW2A471MHD
C14 470UF 80V 647-UPW2A471MHD
C15 100UF 63V 647-UPW1J101MPD
C16 100UF 63V 647-UPW1J101MPD
C17 47UF 16V 647-UPW1E470MDD
C18 47UF 16V 647-UPW1E470MDD
C21 47UF 50V 647-UPW2A470MPD
C22 2200UF 10V 647-UPW1A222MHD
C23 220UF 16V 647-UPW1C221MPD
C24 1000UF 35V 647-UPW1V102MHD
Q1 2SD313 KSC2073TU 512-KSC2073TU
Q2 2SC1318 KSC2690AYS 512-KSC2690AYS
Q3 2SC1318 KSC2690AYS 512-KSC2690AYS
Q4 2SB507 KSA940TU 512-KSA940TU
Q5 2SA720 KSA1220AYS 512-KSA1220AYS
Q6 2SD313 KSC2073TU 512-KSC2073TU
D1 SIB01-04 1N4004 512-1n4004
D2 SIB01-04 1N4004 512-1n4004
D3 SIB01-04 1N4004 512-1n4004
D4 SIB01-04 1N4004 512-1n4004
D5 SR3AM8 1N5404 512-1N5404
D6 SR3AM8 1N5404 512-1N5404
D7 SR3AM8 1N5404 512-1N5404
D8 SR3AM8 1N5404 512-1N5404
D9 1S1885 1N4004 512-1n4004
D10 1S1885 1N4004 512-1n4004
D11 1S1885 1N4004 512-1n4004
D12 WZ-130 1N5243B 512-1N5243B
D13 WZ-130 1N5243B 512-1N5243B
D14 WZ-140 1N5244B 512-1N5244B

Filter Caps
C1 10000UF 50V 598-DCMC123U75EH2B
C2 10000UF 50V 598-DCMC123U75EH2B


Output Transitors
Q1 2SD388 863-MJ21194G
Q2 2SD388 863-MJ21194G
Q3 2SB541 863-MJ21193G
Q4 2SB541 863-MJ21193G
Q5 2SB541 863-MJ21193G
Q6 2SB541 863-MJ21193G
Q7 2SD388 863-MJ21194G
Q8 2SD388 863-MJ21194G
 
Your list looks good, check all leg placements on all your caps and transistors. "Also verify ALL power supply voltages." as Mark asked. Have the caps been run for awhile or is this a brand new restore, I've had muddy response on some units until they were burned in a bit.
 
Thanks for the comments. The unit only has maybe a total of 1 hour of play time, mostly while I was working on it. I did swap speakers and the problem stays with the left channel. Here are the reading on the PS. I don't know all the reference values but I pulled off what I could from the print.
PS: I will start checking caps and transistors for polarity but I can't figure out why I can't see the issue. I would think that if I can hear a difference that I should be able to see the anomaly in the waveform somewhere and trace it to a component.


Power supply board AWR 052
traget Actual
PIN 1 6.7VAC
PIN 2 7.5 8
PIN 3 0 0
PIN 4 13 13.38
PIN 5 35 34.72
PIN 6 47.5 46.7
PIN 7 0 0
PIN 8 25 22.74
PIN 9 - 43.5 -45
PIN 10 -13 -13.49
PIN 11 -25 -22.6
PIN 12 -36.4VAC
PIN 13 48 48.8
PIN 14 -48 -48.8
PIN 15 -36.4VAC
PIN 16 0 0.2mv
PIN 17 49.4VAC
PIN 18 49.4VAC
PIN 19 21VAC
PIN 20 21.09VAC
PIN 21 -7.5 -7.82VAC
PIN 22 -7.5 -7.82VAC
PIN 23 6.72VAC

Amplifier board AWH-030
pin 10 to grd 2 mv
Pin 25 to grd 1mv
Pin 50-44 25mv
Pin 38-32 25mv
 
Okay, so this is embarrassing. In an effort to validate I have not missed anything I swapped the pre-outs to the amp L/R and R/L. However, the issue stayed on the left side. I was perplexed since the amp worked well on both channels when directly fed by an external source by-passing the pre-amp. I swapped the pre-outs to the amp several times and the issue continued to stay on the left. Frustrated I disconnected the speakers and retrieved a set of Polk bookshelf speakers from the garage. I hooked them up and viola crystal clear sound from both channels. I am not sure how I missed the obvious but I attribute it to troubleshooting at 1am and perhaps all my senses were not optimum. When my dad was in the TV repair business (back when they had such a thing) people would often call and say their TV was dead, no sound and no picture. His first response was always the same, "is it plugged in and is it turned on". Sounds simple but I bet 25% of the time an embarrassed owner would blame his wife or kids for unplugging the TV. All of that to say, never rule out the obvious.

Thanks to all for suffering through my inattention and thanks for all the threads on the forum. They are extremely valuable to many of us.
 
That's only one. Most of us have been down that road for MANY more trips. Glad it's resolved.
 
Well it seemed you had checked everything else so. How does that saying go? If you ruling out things and being left with the answer?
 
Okay, so this is embarrassing. In an effort to validate I have not missed anything I swapped the pre-outs to the amp L/R and R/L. However, the issue stayed on the left side. I was perplexed since the amp worked well on both channels when directly fed by an external source by-passing the pre-amp. I swapped the pre-outs to the amp several times and the issue continued to stay on the left. Frustrated I disconnected the speakers and retrieved a set of Polk bookshelf speakers from the garage. I hooked them up and viola crystal clear sound from both channels. I am not sure how I missed the obvious but I attribute it to troubleshooting at 1am and perhaps all my senses were not optimum. When my dad was in the TV repair business (back when they had such a thing) people would often call and say their TV was dead, no sound and no picture. His first response was always the same, "is it plugged in and is it turned on". Sounds simple but I bet 25% of the time an embarrassed owner would blame his wife or kids for unplugging the TV. All of that to say, never rule out the obvious.

Thanks to all for suffering through my inattention and thanks for all the threads on the forum. They are extremely valuable to many of us.
that is okay, I am 56 now, and making mistakes that I never would have made in my early 50s
 
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