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SX780 Filter caps

AndresPlaza

Andres Esteban
Hi everybody! I'm new to this wonderful forum! Six months ago the darlington output transitors of my Pioneer SX-780 shorted (STK0050). Bought a new pair and installed them. The receiver is working fine. Adjusted DC Power amplifier Balance (VR5 & VR6 adjust) also. Recently i noticed the main filter caps 8000uF/50v are a little bit stuffed but still holding on. Couldn't find 8000uF new ones, only EPCOS 10,000uF/50v. I was wondering if this value (10,000uF) is too much for the rectifier bridge consisting of four SR3AM-8 rectifers (2A/400v general purpose).
I've seen others replaced the originals with 10,000uF units without problem but I'd like to hear some advices. Thanks in advance!
 
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As long as they physically fit, not a problem at all. They'll give your power supply a little more power reserve when you play your music loud.
 
As long as they physically fit, not a problem at all. They'll give your power supply a little more power reserve when you play your music loud.

Thanks babblefish! Following your advice today I replaced the old main filter caps C501 - C502 (original 8000uF/50v) by 10,000uF/50v EPCOS. Distance between +/- original pins is 15mm and the new ones 9mm. I drilled new holes, with new caps in position pins were bent and they matched the +/- copper paths. No sweat! just solder them! Tested and no smoke!!! :banana:

Also, following the advice of user ccheath on thread: SX-780 recap list? (02-25-2009, 03:20 PM )
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2533561&postcount=9 suggested:

Replaced all the caps outside the signal path: No difference.

Low Filter (also a coupling between preamp and main amp)
Replaced C227, C228 0.22/50 & C229, C230 2.2/50: Little noticeable difference

Preamp:
Replaced C207, C208 1/50: There is very noticeable difference.
Replaced C217, C218 4.7/50: There is very noticeable difference.

Loudness:
Changed from stock ceramics to WIMA film
C203, C204 330pf & C205, C206 0.022uf: Sounds smoother while ceramics sounded fuzzier.



So I went and replaced only the Preamp caps as follows:
- Preamp C207- C208 (orig 1uF/50v) by 1uF/63v
- Preamp C217 - C218 (orig 4.7 uF/25v) by 4.7/50V

Also, just in case, and following other threads advice:
- Resoldered Q25 2SD712 regulator transitor

Before closing the unit did:
- DC balance of power amplifers VR5(left channel) Pin9 & GND / VR6 (right channel) Pin6 & GND : about 8mV volt each with no speakers connected, volume at zero and aux (with no input connected), couldn't get 0mV. Tricky pots to adjust! :scratch2: Guess 8mV is a good value.

After that checked:
- DC speaker output voltage measured. Left the receiver on for 30 minutes with speakers not connected, selector in aux input and nothing connected, tone at mid position, no loudness, balance at center, vol at minimum. Used to digital meters connected to speaker outputs. Volatges measured:
left channel 9 mV , right channel 5 mV :thmbsp:

Again, according to other thread:

0 - 15mV: Damn good!! If you read '0V', you may have a capacitor output, or your meter is set wrong

16mV - 50mV: An acceptable value, especially at the lower end of this range. 2nd harmonic distortion is probably twice to four times what manufacturer's spec calls for at higher frequencies. Probably not audible, as the distortion is mostly in the upper octaves. At the upper end of this range I begin to raise an eyebrow.

50 - 85mV: Something is certainly amiss, and while this is not enough to put your speakers or equipment in jeopardy, the amp is running nowhere near where it should. I'd venture to guess that most of the DC-coupled amps that are in use by forum members here fall into this range.

100mV to ?: A high enough voltage will cause the DC protection to kick in. This happens at a level determined by the designer, but is usually equivalent to about a diode drop (600mV)or so. Needless to say, if you are listening to an amp with 100mV or more of DC offset, you have no idea what the amp really is supposed to sound like. Indeed, some amps without a differential input are actually designed to have a bit of DC at the outputs, but this is triple-rare, and I don't think anyone here owns one. (in my book it's piss-poor design, but if you can sell it WTH..)


My notes:
-It seems eveything is working fine.
-Changing those caps on the preamp section improved bass and treble quite a lot a lot!
-New filter caps (2x 10,000uF) somehow gave a better and clearer output, also no light trembling at high volume.
-The only thing I'm not satisfied is the loudness section, perhaps should change caps also. There's little difference turning loudness on. It's there but not as impressive as I remember when the unit was new (32 years ago!!! ;-)

That's all for now. All comments, advices, remarks, will be greatly appreciated!
Regards and thanks! Andy.
 
I forgot another thing: after replacing the main filter caps, the receiver is colder. Less heat dissipated? Don't know but it seems it's running at lower temp. Does this check with your experience?
 
Some pics of the modifications.
 

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Nicely done.

It is interesting that you mentioned resoldering the regulator transistor Q25. That one gets quite hot in normal operation and could stand to be upgraded and will last longer with better heat dissipation. You might want to look into something like this:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4575031&postcount=12

You're right Watthour! I saw this thread before and I was thinking to do something like that. I have many heatsinks around taken for old computer PSU. I'll look for one that can be modified and attached to the Q25 heatsink.
It's won't hurt and it's better to run cooler! Thanks for the tip!
Regards. Andy.
 
Added Heat Sinks to SX-780 regulator transistors

Concerned with heat dissipation, those regulator transistors get so hot: Q25 - 2SD712 and Q20 - 2SB536A, I decided to increase heatsink area. Attached images show to aluminium plates properly bent to prevent contact with near capacitors and heatsinks. Note all three original heat sinks have two little holes on the left side. the upper one was used to fix the aluminium plates with samll screws. White thermal paste was applied over the contact surface.
Regards. Andy
 

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This may be of interest:

Today I replaced on my SX-780 the following caps Low Filter (also a coupling between preamp and main amp): C227, C228 0.22uF/50v & C229, C230 2.2uF/50v

Result: although the new caps had de proper values (checked them first), the qualty of the sound was changed, sounded raspy. Treble was incresed but as I've said now there was a "raspy qualty" I didn't like at all, so i decided to put back the original electrolytic caps (30+ years) which give a very mellow sound. So no improvement in replacing these caps. Don't know if it's a problem of capacitor brand... I used EPCOS. The same brand when I replaced
- Preamp C207- C208 (orig 1uF/50v) by 1uF/63v
- Preamp C217 - C218 (orig 4.7 uF/25v) by 4.7/50V
which gave an amazing improvement on the sound qualty.
After replacing caps DC balance of power amplifiers (VR5 and VR6) eas done!

... so... recapping all caps? Not necessarily a good idea! I think the correct procedure is to replace some caps, check sound and then decide if sound's improved or not.
Regards. Andy
 
Concerned with heat dissipation, those regulator transistors get so hot: Q25 - 2SD712 and Q20 - 2SB536A, I decided to increase heatsink area. Attached images show to aluminium plates properly bent to prevent contact with near capacitors and heatsinks. Note all three original heat sinks have two little holes on the left side. the upper one was used to fix the aluminium plates with samll screws. White thermal paste was applied over the contact surface.
Regards. Andy

I just saw this - it's a GOOD idea BUT: the only change would be to insulate the power transistors from the heat sinks now, using mica insulators and nylon shoulder washers, because the heat sinks are less than an inch apart carrying RAW DC direct from the capacitors, the type of energy that EATS screwdriver tips.
It's a heck of a booby trap. :yikes:

My method for quick checks on the 780 for GOOD DC to the regulators is to quickly probe the three heat sinks.... taking advantage of the fact that they are live...


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I haven't taken any pics of it, but when I recapped my SX-780 a few months ago, I installed three of these Rat Shack heat sinks, part #276-1363 in addition to the originals:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...tm_content=Exact&utm_campaign=PLA&cagpspn=pla

I drilled one extra hole in the new heat sink so that it would fit over the nub on the back of the original heat sinks and be high enough not to contact any other component on the board. I then used a metric nut (3mm x .5) and a washer to retain the additional heat sink to the back of the original one using the original mounting screw. I used some JB Weld epoxy between the back of the original heat sink and the new one to secure it further. The temperature of the original heat sink after 1/2 hour operation the hottest one was about 180*F, after the additional heat sinks were installed, the hottest one was about 125*F after 1/2 hour, measured with a temperature gun.

I'll try to take some pics and post them later.
 
I just saw this - it's a GOOD idea BUT: the only change would be to insulate the power transistors from the heat sinks now, using mica insulators and nylon shoulder washers, because the heat sinks are less than an inch apart carrying RAW DC direct from the capacitors, the type of energy that EATS screwdriver tips.
It's a heck of a booby trap. :yikes:

My method for quick checks on the 780 for GOOD DC to the regulators is to quickly probe the three heat sinks.... taking advantage of the fact that they are live...


attachment.php
You're right Mark, the heat sinks are very close to the caps and I know this is a potentially dangerous situation, even with mica isolators. Next mod will be to replace this quick solution with taller heat sinks thus keeping proper distance from caps. So far I'm happy the transistors run cooler (here in Rio we have 35°C room temp sometimes), althought the "coolers" are not in the safest arrangement they are better than the little originals. Thanks for the tip!
 
The caps are not a danger, other than obstructing airflow, the cans are insulated by the plastic covering and they aren't connected to either terminal of the capacitor.

The mica insulators and shoulder washers are the only things you need to do with this, of course if you seek to enlarge or improve the heat sinks don't let me discourage you. :D
 
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