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Synergy, how do you define it when it comes to audio gear?

BilboBaggins

BilboBaggins

Addicted Member
I replied to a thread a short time ago, and used the term synergy. Some people don't like that term. I think it is a great term! It defines something that can't be measurable, but exists when the mix is just right.

In terms of teams and team building, where I first heard the term, it had to do with getting the right mix of team members where the output of the team was much greater that the sum of their individual components.

In the coffee world, it is finding the right blend of single origin coffees to make the coffee blend exceptional.

In audio, I define it as being the unmeasurable (at least the way we do it now) something that can make music sound so exceptional. You can't point to one component as being responsible either. It is that mix of gear where the speakers disappear and you are in the middle of the concert!

What are your thoughts? Snake oil, or something real?
 
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Real. I've had it happen a number of times in various situations. Hard to reproduce. It isn't common and often it will only last for a very short time - in audio sometimes for only a single song, but it is wonderful when you find it.


Mark Gosdin
 
I think that in hifi synergy is usually the propitious combination of two components that work well together -- often for good reason, as opposed to black magic. For example, a single-ended DHT amplifier with no negative feedback will have a high output impedance (low damping factor) and will feel the impedance curve of a loudspeaker much more than an amplifier with high DF. A loudspeaker with a benign impedance curve will likely exhibit a "rightness" with the aforementioned low DF amplifier that some might conveniently describe as synergy.
 
mhardy6647 said:
I think that in hifi synergy is usually the propitious combination of two components that work well together -- often for good reason, as opposed to black magic. For example, a single-ended DHT amplifier with no negative feedback will have a high output impedance (low damping factor) and will feel the impedance curve of a loudspeaker much more than an amplifier with high DF. A loudspeaker with a benign impedance curve will likely exhibit a "rightness" with the aforementioned low DF amplifier that some might conveniently describe as synergy.
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This is interesting, because I do believe that damping factor is a component. If only I understood everything you said...

I call it magic sometimes for fun, but I've always believed it was measurable only we don't know exactly what. Every time I think I do, something happens to throw it all out.
 
If I get a pair of speakers that sound good to me to begin with, I can usually get them sounding better and better after a few days, mostly by swapping in different components and/or biamping. This is what we casually call synergy I believe. Of course, I am limited to gear on hand and thus justifies the need to have a lot of gear on hand. :)

But if I do not like the sound of a set of speakers to begin with, I have never been able to get them to sound better. It is what it is and I am already prejudiced. So I need to be very careful about buying speakers and usually do a lot of investigation before I buy them.
 
For me it means coherence in sound quality delivery among the different components of a system (meaning some sort of "constructive inteference" rather than the also possible "destructive" one).
 
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I've got it when I listen and stop thinking about individual flaws in any of the components and just hear the music.
 
mhardy6647 said:
I think that in hifi synergy is usually the propitious combination of two components that work well together -- often for good reason, as opposed to black magic. For example, a single-ended DHT amplifier with no negative feedback will have a high output impedance (low damping factor) and will feel the impedance curve of a loudspeaker much more than an amplifier with high DF. A loudspeaker with a benign impedance curve will likely exhibit a "rightness" with the aforementioned low DF amplifier that some might conveniently describe as synergy.
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Agreed. Not that some components don't play better together, it's that there is a reason; not just luck of the draw/stroke of fate. And, as your example illustrates, we don't need to leave it to a three left turns approach. Armed with a bit of information one might avert one or two of those left turns.
 
If you don't run screaming from the room holding your hands over your ears, you have component synergy
 
ConradH said:
I've got it when I listen and stop thinking about individual flaws in any of the components and just hear the music.
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I think this is it for me as well. Every once in a while the thought "man this is sounding excellent" comes into my head and then I go back to listening. I've especially noticed it when I'm in a lousy mood. If the system works well it still sounds quite good regardless of how cranky I am. If it's not quite right I sit there and pick apart everything I dislike about it and have a lousy time.
 
Going from room to room at the CES Show, I found out it rarely happens.

As far as your thought that it is not any one component, I'll tend to disagree. It still comes down to the final transducer.
 
It's amazing how fast tastes can change. Lately I have been enjoying my 2240 out in the garage but last night before we lost power, I was listening to several CD's and it just smacked me in the head that all I was really trying to do is like the Marantz and when my head was clear and I was working on something else, that's when I noticed that it really was not good at all

I will revisit it today and see if I get the same feeling. I have had it hooked up to several pairs of speakers and the big Mitsubishi 4 way towers seemed to sound the best with it but not last night but I noticed I had to engage the Loudness to get any lowend which I try never to do, this was with every set of speakers I tried. I think the Mitsu's made up for lowend with more clarity??? The Bose 501's will get it today
 
To me, synergy is very real. Some stuff just does not play well with others--regardless of what all of the spec sheets state. And your individual room/listening space and preferences play heavily into this equation. Spec sheets can be helpful, but you have to remember that they are based on bench testing in a controlled environment--not your living room. I have heard some "mish-mash" of strange bedfellows that sound great, and some all TOTL "matched" components that out-right sucked.
 
In a hobby filled with DB terms and BS, synergy is one I completely believe in. With all of the vintage stuff I have and all of the combinations, most of which I liked, there are two or three combos that opened my eyes with just how good they sound. The first one I noticed was my Marantz 2220B/Imperial 6 combo. There is something so clean and clear about them that I have not touched it since putting it together, which is unusual for me. The second/third is my bedroom system with Realistic STA 95/Nova 6 combo and last week when I got a SA 2001 Integrated with the same Nova 6s. One does not have to know all the deeply technical details of just why some combos sound better to enjoy them. But I do believe there are measurable things to account for the reasons synergy is real.
 
We should always consider that "synergy" does not stop at component level, when describing "synergy"

My system often sounds best late at evening or night, when everything is quiet and my ears have had some hours to relax in silence.
 
ev13wt said:
We should always consider that "synergy" does not stop at component level, when describing "synergy"

My system often sounds best late at evening or night, when everything is quiet and my ears have had some hours to relax in silence.
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http://www.decware.com/paper03.htm
(Deckert's usual hyperbole, but probably generally on-track, as he often is, if only by random chance)

FWIW, there are many of "us" who think/assume that this is related to the quality of power available on the grid at seriously off-peak times. This is, as they say in my line of work, a testable hypothesis. :)
 
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