System Subwoofer Importance

[lawrencee11]

So I have been wondering how important a subwoofer is to a system. What changes besides power with the price? I have a Sony SA-WMSP69 active subwoofer with a 10" woofer, and 160 watts RMS. It has a port and I usually keep it turned to about half volume. I believe it sounds fine but what would I benefit from getting a more expensive/nicer one. Go ahead and skip the "if you're happy with it" stuff, I'm asking just in general, not for you to convince me to not spend money. Also, if there is a better forum for this thread please feel free to move it.

 

[Putterman]

In general there are 2 ways to go. Yes, I think the consensus is that the more expensive subs are better than the cheapies. My experience is limited with this. My most expensive sub is a Def Tech Pro Sub 80 eight inch that came with an upscale home theater speaker system. I use it in my computer system and find it's an improvement over various SONY's and a Yamaha sub of the same size.
On the other hand, with a multi sub system you can use a less expensive (but not cheap subs) because they're less stress on each sub and they're used to tame room standing waves which a single sub can't do.

 

[bhunter]

Just about any widely available subwoofer can do an adequate job with LFE; however, if music is the goal, then money spent on a subwoofer, preferably several for a distributed bass system, ought bring significant returns. Personally, I find a distributive bass system does more for midrange clarity and overall anbience than just producing low bass. Properly integrated a subwoofer system should not draw attention to it being in the system, but is noted when its absent.

 

[motorstereo]

It's depends on how good your mains are. I tried supplementing my big polks with a dual 12'' M+K and the sub didn't put out as much bass as the mains. The M+K I'm sure would work just fine with a pair of bookshelf speakers. On the other hand I have a cheap ass wireless sub with my soundbar for tv watching and they work quite well together. Pairing that little sub up with my Concert Grands I'm sure wouldn't be all that good.

 

[toxcrusadr]

What's a suboofer?

 

[Bostown]

It's depends on how good your mains are. I tried supplementing my big polks with a dual 12'' M+K and the sub didn't put out as much bass as the mains. The M+K I'm sure would work just fine with a pair of bookshelf speakers. On the other hand I have a cheap ass wireless sub with my soundbar for tv watching and they work quite well together. Pairing that little sub up with my Concert Grands I'm sure wouldn't be all that good.

sounds like it may not have been set up properly or there's something wrong with the M&K sub. technically it won't put out much sound if the program material doesn't have much happening in the range that a sub would be set to when paired with full range speakers. assuming it's set to 40 or 30hz on the low pass, it's only going to play information from your source material in that range. chamber music, Electronica genres , etc may have information in that range, especially on digital formats, but Rock pop soul jazz etc especially if the source is vinyl probably doesn't have a lot of information that a sub will reproduce at those settings with any significant volume level.

if the sub is set higher, say 80hz or so, then a high pass filter should be used on the main speakers. Using a sub with speakers that have good low frequency extension is ideal if your program material dips into the range that a sub will cover. On occasion I use a pair of martin logan depth subs with B&w Nautilus 802s , but when doing so i use a high pass filter on the 802s, the depths are on low frequency duty at 80hz and below. i use similar settings for my Genelec 1032a monitors and 1094a sub.

M&K subs dont have high pass filters so either a standalone M&K passive HP80 or similar high pass unit. or a preamp with HP filtering can sort that out. All dolby digital pre/pro units will allow filtering to the mains. And if a 2 channel,preamp is preferrered the Parasound Halo P5 has selectable high and low pass filters built in. Not to mention a solid DAC. So either filter when you pair subs with mains with decent LF extension or listen to more material that plays well into the 30hz and under range.

 

[ProBlogger]

It depends on the room and the size of the mains. My mains are large enough and extend low enough that I don't need one to rattle the walls. I also have the mains "tuned" to the room so I don't have use any tone controls or eq.

 

[motorstereo]

sounds like it may not have been set up properly or there's something wrong with the M&K sub. technically it won't put out much sound if the program material doesn't have much happening in the range that a sub would be set to when paired with full range speakers. assuming it's set to 40 or 30hz on the low pass, it's only going to play information from your source material in that range. chamber music, Electronica genres , etc may have information in that range, especially on digital formats, but Rock pop soul jazz etc especially if the source is vinyl probably doesn't have a lot of information that a sub will reproduce at those settings with any significant volume level.

if the sub is set higher, say 80hz or so, then a high pass filter should be used on the main speakers. Using a sub with speakers that have good low frequency extension is ideal if your program material dips into the range that a sub will cover. On occasion I use a pair of martin logan depth subs with B&w Nautilus 802s , but when doing so i use a high pass filter on the 802s, the depths are on low frequency duty at 80hz and below. i use similar settings for my Genelec 1032a monitors and 1094a sub.

M&K subs dont have high pass filters so either a standalone M&K passive HP80 or similar high pass unit. or a preamp with HP filtering can sort that out. All dolby digital pre/pro units will allow filtering to the mains. And if a 2 channel,preamp is preferrered the Parasound Halo P5 has selectable high and low pass filters built in. Not to mention a solid DAC. So either filter when you pair subs with mains with decent LF extension or listen to more material that palys well into the 30hz and under range.

Nothing wrong with the set up or the sub as it played very well with lesser speakers. The 200 did not go as low as the mains and it was quite clear that was the problem.

 

[Bostown]

Nothing wrong with the set up or the sub as it played very well with lesser speakers. The 200 did not go as low as the mains and it was quite clear that was the problem.

So you have superlative and very capable speakers. (Applause). No sub needed. For someone else , perhaps the info provided may be useful.

 

[motorstereo]

​

So you have superlative and very capable speakers. (Applause). No sub needed. For someone else , perhaps the info provided may be useful.

I looked at it as I had a sub that wasn't up to the task...........no applause necessary.

 

[Bostown]

I looked at it as I had a sub that wasn't up to the task...........no applause necessary.

And that's working just fine for you, no need to incorporate something into your setup that adds no performance gain. Makes sense to me. it does what it needs to do without any additional component accoutrements. That's good for you and at the end of the day that's really all that matters.

 

[kfalls]

A lot of factors determine a good sub. A larger driver and cabinet will provide lower bass. A sub must be constructed well with adequate bracing so the cabinet/baffle doesn't add vibration to the output. The type of subwoofer will also determine its output. A bass-reflect system will provide more output and is more efficient, but may sound less controlled than a sealed acoustic suspension sub. Down-firing and-front firing subs sound different. Placement will make a sub sound different. You see more bass reinforcement with the sub on a wall, or in a corner. I've never been a fan of either Sony or Yamaha subs. Just like I've never buy speakers from a non-speaker company. I only buy subs from a sub company.

 

[Freddymac2]

Just for reference there are a ton of Really Cr**py subs out there. There are also a bunch of really good ones that are not reliable or supported by the company that makes them. To pay $3000 to augment a system from 50 cycles to 25 cycles is as nuts as paying $1000 for 20' of speaker wire. Yes it may make a difference, but that most wouldn't hear.
A good sub will give you the ability to hear the music you have been missing. It should not muddy up the mid range of your system, it should be fast and solid with each drum stroke. Very decent old ones can be had for $50 to $100 at a pawn shop or Goodwill. Pawn Shops have a better return policy. If you like what you hear you can always get a better one without looseing too mu

 

[audiomagnate]

...To pay $3000 to augment a system from 50 cycles to 25 cycles is as nuts as paying $1000 for 20' of speaker wire...

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. A truly good sub (or better yet a swarm and or an infinite baffle setup) makes a HUGE difference. like the difference between "real" and "nice stereo system." If you're handy you can build a nice sub for $500 or so.

 

[Freddymac2]

OK Magnate,
I guess my system is "REAL" nice, but I don't have a studio to put it in! If you ever travel through Westchester county in New York, drop me a line and you can hear what I am doing with a $50 sub in a 25' x 13' room.