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Tape Counters Differences

R

russ1965

Active Member
I have several R2R tape decks and Pioneer CT-F1250 and CT-F1000, decks. While dubbing tapes the counters do not coincide.

The reel to reel's are the same model, and even going form one model to an other.

The CT-F1250 seems to way off by 1000.

What does the tape digits in the counter represent.

RJS
 
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russ1965 said:
What does the tape digits in the counter represent.
Click to expand...

Nothing of much use. :)

The mechanical counters on most older decks count off revolutions of one of the reels, which doesn't correspond directly to any time because the revolutions per recording time change as the reels fill or empty. In order to make any use of the numbers, you need to calibrate them by running a tape from zero and recording the counter number at various time intervals. I used to keep a chart taped to the wall over each of my decks.
 
The speed of counters are also inherent constantly variable. If you really want to make use of tape counters, decks with real-time counters are a solution.
 
I agree, real time counters are way better. However, I have found some real time counters are not really REAL time either. My Denon DR-M44HX has a real time counter but in the beginning of a tape it goes fast and near the end it slows down. Comparing it with my watch, it is not even close to being accurate.

The only real soultion is to use a clock or something to count authentic time. This only works in play however. The moment you FF or REW, this method goes out the window.

Unless you use the same machine always, I think any counter is not much help.
 
The counter had helped me when I wanted to index something. During teen years until now had no problem using them. :D I knew from all machines I ever owned (other than my current vcr) was never "time" accuracy. It was pretty accurate give or take a few numbers even FF and REW until I find the number I want and got the song I wanted.:music: Of course, each different model machines count at different rates. Also, for the mechanical counter to count properly, the belts must be in good condition. Otherwise they are NO HELP.
 
With real time counters, apart from them being calibrated, belts, pulleys, tape must make firm contact during play and FF/REW.

On my Teac X1000R and PR99, play would give one length for the reel, FF would give another. Before correcting this, I could get 1:35:00 in play and 1:15:00 in FF. Rewinding that 1:15:00 would bring the meter to minus readings.

But if tape (or whatever feeds the counter pulser) makes positive contact, if belts (if present in this loop) make firm contact, and if this isn't disturbed in FF/REW, then time matches to the second.
 
russ1965 said:
What does the tape digits in the counter represent.
Click to expand...

"Relative" position for that deck only. If that's the only deck you use, you can mark relative positions of a certain song on a tape, but that tape counter value will have no meaning on any other deck, or even on that same deck if (and when) the tape counter belt stretches. Sad truth.....
 
Thanks, for the responses. Still confused.

On the reel to reel decks I was told each digit represented a 1 revolution of the plater, same for Pioneer CT-F1000. That isn't true for the reel to reels since it takes around 3.5 revolutions for the digit to move. On a 3600 ft tape the counter reads 1236, On a 1800 foot tape 735.

On the Pioneer decks there is indexing (memory) on both units. Does any know how what the Pioneer CT-F 1250 digits represent, (electronic counter display) since if you play 45 minute tape start to finish the counter reads 3116, using the same tape on CT-F 950 (electronic counter display) 785, CT-F1000 (wheel counter display) 716.
 
russ1965 said:
On the reel to reel decks I was told each digit represented a 1 revolution of the plater, same for Pioneer CT-F1000.
Click to expand...

NOPE!!! It varies wildly from machine to machine depending on the model.

russ1965 said:
That isn't true for the reel to reels since it takes around 3.5 revolutions for the digit to move. On a 3600 ft tape the counter reads 1236, On a 1800 foot tape 735.
Click to expand...

I would love it if the counter could count how many foot, but I NEVER seen any machine do that. I'm not saying it's not possible to manufacture such but as the ones I already seen never do.

russ1965 said:
On the Pioneer decks there is indexing (memory) on both units. Does any know how what the Pioneer CT-F 1250 digits represent, (electronic counter display) since if you play 45 minute tape start to finish the counter reads 3116, using the same tape on CT-F 950 (electronic counter display) 785, CT-F1000 (wheel counter display) 716.
Click to expand...

From my experience using the counter is mostly good for indexing. If I play one tape that has for example 10 songs per side, I would reset the counter at the beginning of the tape. That way 1st song at 0000. 2nd song if you see the number then write the number down when you hear the 1st song end then there's a gap before the 2nd song. Number would be ex. 0092 then do the same for the 3rd song and so forth. Ex 1st song=0000, 2nd song=0092, 3rd song=0150, etc.... then you have all the numbers down then when you decide in the future to play that same tape but you want to listen to the 3rd song then reset the counter at the beginning of the tape then FF until you get to No. 0150 then play from there. There will be give or take several seconds. But from my experience, a good belt going from the reel to the counter pulley will minimize the offset.

When you play the same tape on a DIFFERENT machine, you'll have to reindex for that machine if the machine is counting differently. That is pretty much all I find the counter useful for. Not for time or date or anything like that. Just indexing.
 
The counter on any tape deck is not intended to be anything other than a reference point. There is not degree of accuracy.
 
russ1965 said:
Thanks, for the responses. Still confused.

On the reel to reel decks I was told each digit represented a 1 revolution of the plater
Click to expand...

I hope you didn't take that from my post. Older mechanical units counted off reel rotations, but not necessarily at 1 digit per rotation. Every deck is different.
 
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