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Teac 4010s hum and noise thru audio on high speed only

tom3

Super Member
This is my Teac 4010s, bought new back in 1969. I've done the usual maintenance over the years and it still works perfect mechanically after all these years. On slow speed (3 3/4ips) it sounds fine, quiet and good response/output. When it step it up to high speed I'm getting a noticeable hum and sort of a rushing noise with the volume up a bit. At normal low listening levels it's not really noticeable and the response/output is good. The hum and noise through the speakers is only on this high speed. Before I start getting in deep I'd appreciate any information on where to look for this deal. In the picture the motor run caps are multi-section caps for the speeds and 50 & 60 hz selections. The schematics for this deck aren't a lot of help, at least to me. The values are shown on the end of the caps. Main question to start with - would one of these caps cause this noise in the audio? Capstan motor runs fine, speed is good, etc. teac 4010s motor etc.jpg
 
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Well darn, no help. What I'd really like to do if one of these is the culprit is eliminate this mess and have a motor run cap for high speed and one for low, eliminate the world wide selection deal. Be nice to find a schematic for a USA only version of this deck.
 
Tom3.

If you have some blank tape, run at at low speed, but set you output gain and amplifier volume to higher than normal.
For you hear the hum/hussshhhh sound?
Now switch to high speed. Same test.

Do you hear the same with the RCA cables removed ( no amp ) and using headphones?
Is some of this noise the sound of the tape moving across the heads and ringing the reels?

Hope this helps define the issue.
 
The US only deck would be an A-4010SU. No multivoltage selector or 50/60 Hz switch. 50Hz line frequency needs a larger capacitor value than when running at 60Hz to maintain the correct phase shift and torque.

The capstan and reel motor run capacitors are multi-value, one for 60Hz, the high value and a supplemental lower value to add to the 60Hz value for 50Hz line frequency. The reel motors can will have four values, two for 60Hz, two for 50Hz. Since you only have noise at high speed and no speed issues, I doubt motor run caps are the issue. The capacitance remains the same for both speeds. Different field windings in the motors are used to change speeds.

With my deck a bad motor run capacitor caused speed issues and the motor itself would hum and get hot, no noise from speakers. I did have a bad Germanium transistor in the preamp circuit that caused a rushing noise. Later decks used silicon transistors.

I'm just a hobbyist with some understanding of electronics. Maybe its something in the high speed eq circuit. What are the first two digits if a five digit deck, or first three of six digit deck? My SU is 64xxx. I can tell by pics that your deck is a later serial.

Is noise same level from each speaker or is one channel louder? And just an FYI, if motor run caps are replaced in a global multi-voltage deck used in US, you can just install the high value and cut/insulate the end of the 50Hz value wire.

FWIW, I uploaded a later 4010S/SL service manual at Tapeheads. I also uploaded a 4010S/SL parts list. There are also some later serial deck transport/preamp schematics uploaded in the parts list post. Early decks will have RA-40 amp, later decks used an AR-40. I tried but cannot upload manuals in the database here. File size too large to attach to this post. I sent message asking if the mods want to add to AK database.

Of interest for SL owners, the parts list contains the missing high bias calibration info for the 4010SL. It's just after the image of the preamp board serial 159808 and after. I wonder if they forgot to add that page to SM as they printed on the front cover under 4010SL “refer to last page” but there is nothing there. No pages have been ripped out of my original manual.


 

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Not related to your issue but are you aware that all of the grey Suzuki caps need to be replaced?
They can fail in an unpleasant way.

It takes some time and patience but not a terrible job.
There are a dozen or so.
 
So true OBMG74! I recall researching threads when I repaired my A-4010SU and forum member @rojoknox saying get rid of them Suzuki bombs! I believe this is a pic I saved that he posted. They can fail in a spectacular fashion. He recommended upping the voltage to 650v instead of the original 400v value.

My 64xxx deck had the potted capacitor bank and only eight oil filled Suzuki caps, my pic. Four under front cover, one on a PS board and three across control switches. The OP's deck has the board with four additional Suzuki caps. Another FYI, if you ever have the front cover off a 4010S, check that the magnet hasn't come off the aluminum bracket. The glue dries out and they stick to the tension arm.
 

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I actually did have the magnet deal. And it does kind of fool you because it looks right, but won't pull in. The noise in my deck is only on high speed and I can stop the motor with the tensioner arm and the noise goes away - which I thought was pin-pointing the motor circuit. I probably do need to stock up on some .1uf caps for that machine, about anything that switches has one across the switch. That machine is ONLY 56 years old though.
 
Sounds like sound trouble shooting to me. I used Icel by Nichicon MAB motor run capacitors in mine and also replaced the reel motors caps. Mouser just showed the DC voltage rating, but they are AC rated as well in the data sheet. It was congested in there, so I removed, gutted and slotted the capstan/reel motor cans and mounted them in there using the original cans base mounting. If you've never gutted a can capacitor before it can be messy, smelly and expose one to chemicals so don't do it or proper PPE needed if you do. Mine were dried out and I got the innards out easily. (I've gutted and stuffed cans with new caps in old receivers where the can was at very rear and I didn't want exposed caps there).

You can also use ceiling fan motor run capacitors. Use same uf value and you can go same/higher on voltage. Mine was a 2.8uf/1uf 250VAC. Voltage spec should be on side of can and in parts list.

On the old can, you have a common terminal, 60hz 2.8uf terminal and 50Hz 1uf terminal. Cut and connect the common to one side of motor run cap, the other to the 60Hz wire. Cut and insulate the end of the 50Hz wire or leave it attached to can if you leave it in place. Mine being a US only deck had the multi value cans but no 50Hz wiring/switch.

I totally recapped mine and had some bad Germanium transistors. It was a gifted rescue deck (stored in outside non temp controlled shed in Midwest) that cleaned up and calibrated nicely.
 

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Thanks for the info. I looked at the schematics and couldn't figure out those caps for the different speeds and voltages. Your pictures show just what I need to know. I can forget the 1 uf caps. One of my reel motor caps was off and the 3uf drive motor caps both measure about 7uf and higher resistance with a low voltage component tester and a multimeter. Probably not the problem but just showing old age. I'm replacing those.
 
I did replace the 3uf caps, eliminated the 1uf caps, also replaced a 1000uf cap on a reel motor that was reading way high. This actually fixed the hum and noise on this deck. Also got a surprise with this too - the deck sounds a whole lot better now. I'd noticed a drop off on the high frequencies but just assumed it was old tapes. I put on a tape that I had recorded with a crossfield head Akai deck many years ago and now it sounds really good, like it did when recorded as far as I can recall. Not sure how that works but have to assume the old capacitors were screwing up the DC power supply? Or something. Anyway, thanks to all for the help and pictures!
 
Greetings from RojoLand!

"…also replaced a 1000uf cap on a reel motor that was reading way high. This actually fixed the hum and noise on this deck." — The 1000 µF capacitor is the main filter capacitor for the audio parts of the deck and has nothing to do with the reel motor. Glad you found the source of the hum! (And that reminds me, I need to get back to work on my own A-4010S…)

That cap read high most likely because it had become [electrically] leaky.

Take care,
—
J. E. Knox "The Victor Freak"
Current caretaker of A-4010S S/N 48104
 
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