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Teac TN-300 angled headshell , exchange or return?

S

Sebastian A.

New Member
I received this turntable today and I was surprised at the flimsy build quality of the headshell. The cartridge itself is secondary, I wasn't going to leave the AT95 that comes with it, I have an AT440MLb that I was going to put in it, except that when I put the headshell in to test it, it was evident that it is at an angle. It's not too bad, maybe 3 degrees or so at the most, but it's evident to the eye and measuring on both sides makes it clear that it's at an angle, therefore the stylus is not falling on the record perfectly perpendicular as it should, and would probably wear it in an uneven way.

The interesting thing is that I can actually rotate the headshell in its place, and make it a little more even, but not completely so. In my other turntable, the Audio Technica AT-LP120-USB, that doesn't happen. While I haven't measured it, it's not evident to the eye that it's anything but perfectly straight, and if I try to rotate the headshell it barely moves and it always ends up in the same position. With the Teac, I can actually change the rotation of the headshell because the construction is mediocre.

This doesn't seem to affect the sound quality, I tried a few records and even with the AT95 it sounds pretty good, and I can't really tell if there's one channel that sounds louder than the other if that's the case. However, the fact that the stylus is not touching the groove perfectly even makes me concerned for my records.

Now, even if the retailer pays for the shipping back and sends me a new one, it's a pain to pack it, take it to a UPS Store, and then who knows if the replacement will have the perfect angle. So I don't want to get a replacement that I will have to unpack, and then pack again and take to the store.

Did anybody else who owns this turntable notice this? Or did I get a lemon?
 
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A turntable should be user friendly, you are working too hard to get it right, and that should clue you in it's not worth the effort.
You have my permission to return the Teac. I returned one myself due to poor quality, it was an even higher model the TN-550. Just suck it up, pack it carefully, send it back and cut your losses while you can.
They unfortunately are not quite ready for prime time.

I only use tables that have removable headshells myself.
 
Send it back and get a refund. Put that towards a Technics SL1200. Alternatively have a look at the Reloop series of turntables. Still made by Hanpin, but rather better quality.
 
If it's really THAT small off level then why not try a cartridge shim first? You know those plastic circle ones that typically come with brand new carts.

I have the same issue with one of my Technics headshells. Just goes to show that no brands are impervious to small QC errors.
 
I wouldn't go through the trouble of shimming cartridges on a brand new table in effort to correct something that should be right in the first place. If it's the headshell that's the culprit you'd think they could just send you a new one without having to ship the whole table back and worth. If the problem is further down the line in the arm assembly, then that's a different matter. If you otherwise like the table then it would seem worth the trouble to sort it out, but in any case I wouldn't suffer a botched-from-new unit.
 
Thank you all for your replies.

fredjones said:
I only use tables that have removable headshells myself.
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The headshell in this table is removable.

muovimies said:
I wouldn't go through the trouble of shimming cartridges on a brand new table in effort to correct something that should be right in the first place. If it's the headshell that's the culprit you'd think they could just send you a new one without having to ship the whole table back and worth. If the problem is further down the line in the arm assembly, then that's a different matter. If you otherwise like the table then it would seem worth the trouble to sort it out, but in any case I wouldn't suffer a botched-from-new unit.
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Well, at plain sight, when I take out the headshell, the shell leads in the arm would don't seem perfectly straight, but "at plain sight" is not a very exact method. I guess I'll just exchange it, if they pay for the shipping back, and at least give it one more chance. Other than that it's a really nice turntable, and I'm surprised that the AT95 sounds as good as it does in it, all the way to the inner grooves, which is the most noticeable difference between it and the AT120 cartridge, not to mention the AT440MLb. In my Audio Technica turntable, the AT95 sounds decent but as it gets to the inner grooves it doesn't do a good job. I don't know if Teac put some kind of filter to make it sound better, however I'm bypassing the internal phono preamp and going straight to a Sansui A7 amplifier.
 
Sebastian A. said:
Well, at plain sight, when I take out the headshell, the shell leads in the arm would don't seem perfectly straight, but "at plain sight" is not a very exact method. I guess I'll just exchange it, if they pay for the shipping back, and at least give it one more chance. Other than that it's a really nice turntable, and I'm surprised that the AT95 sounds as good as it does in it, all the way to the inner grooves, which is the most noticeable difference between it and the AT120 cartridge, not to mention the AT440MLb. In my Audio Technica turntable, the AT95 sounds decent but as it gets to the inner grooves it doesn't do a good job. I don't know if Teac put some kind of filter to make it sound better, however I'm bypassing the internal phono preamp and going straight to a Sansui A7 amplifier.
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The AT95 is a fine cartridge, the IGD you experience with the AT table could be about many things, first that comes to mind is alignment. I imagine they chuck these along at a rapid pace on the factory line, so the alignment of the cartridge is probably done really fast using some sort of jig, I'm sure you could do better using a protractor and giving it some time. You could also try swapping the stylus between the two cartridges (if you still have the AT95E mounted on a suitable shell for the AT table) and see if the IGD performance follows the stylus. Also make sure the stylus is clean.

One aspect of inner groove performance often overlooked is the quality of the tonearm, having play-free low-friction bearings and well-controlled resonances really do make a difference. It is entirely possible the Teac has a better tonearm. Still, my first guess would be either alignment or stylus hygiene :)
 
muovimies said:
I wouldn't go through the trouble of shimming cartridges on a brand new table in effort to correct something that should be right in the first place. If it's the headshell that's the culprit you'd think they could just send you a new one without having to ship the whole table back and worth. If the problem is further down the line in the arm assembly, then that's a different matter. If you otherwise like the table then it would seem worth the trouble to sort it out, but in any case I wouldn't suffer a botched-from-new unit.
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I totally agree with this. A brand new table should not have any issues and if it does, the ONLY option is to return it...not try to fix it yourself....you shouldn't have to do that.
 
muovimies said:
The AT95 is a fine cartridge, the IGD you experience with the AT table could be about many things, first that comes to mind is alignment. I imagine they chuck these along at a rapid pace on the factory line, so the alignment of the cartridge is probably done really fast using some sort of jig, I'm sure you could do better using a protractor and giving it some time. You could also try swapping the stylus between the two cartridges (if you still have the AT95E mounted on a suitable shell for the AT table) and see if the IGD performance follows the stylus. Also make sure the stylus is clean.

One aspect of inner groove performance often overlooked is the quality of the tonearm, having play-free low-friction bearings and well-controlled resonances really do make a difference. It is entirely possible the Teac has a better tonearm. Still, my first guess would be either alignment or stylus hygiene :)
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Thanks, actually I had tried the alignment with the protractor that I read was the most accurate for my AT table. I can't remember which one it was, since it was two years ago, but I remember taking all the steps and time necessary to get it right, and the AT95 still had inner groove distortion. Shortly after I replaced it with the AT120E cartridge and inner groove distortion was absent in all but a few records. After I put in the AT440MLb, I haven't heard any distortion in any records.

Other than that, the stylus is always clean, I use the small brush that came with the cartridge, and back then I still didn't have the Spin Clean MKII cleaner, but I had ordered a good cleaning solution especially for vinyl records, so they were clean as well.

That said, you may have a good point in that the arm itself in the AT-LP120-USB may not be of great quality and that causes it to have more inner grove distortion than when the AT95E is in the Teac.
 
Sebastian this is part of the very difficult choice today. I don't own a TN-300 but I have enjoyed turntables for 45 years and they are all vintage turntables that meet my demanding requirements. Buying new entry level tables affords you the security of a warranty but no guarantee of an acceptable level of quality, it's a roll of the dice at best that you get one that was built on the right day by the right person. In this price range I'd feel more comfortable recommending the U-Turn Orbit, fine as a starter table with excellent customer service and what appears to be a high level of quality control for this price point. My advice is to return the TN-300 for a refund and get an Orbit, not much for bells and whistles but what it does do is done fairly well with an expression of pride in design/materials/workmanship.
 
majick47 said:
Sebastian this is part of the very difficult choice today. I don't own a TN-300 but I have enjoyed turntables for 45 years and they are all vintage turntables that meet my demanding requirements. Buying new entry level tables affords you the security of a warranty but no guarantee of an acceptable level of quality, it's a roll of the dice at best that you get one that was built on the right day by the right person. In this price range I'd feel more comfortable recommending the U-Turn Orbit, fine as a starter table with excellent customer service and what appears to be a high level of quality control for this price point. My advice is to return the TN-300 for a refund and get an Orbit, not much for bells and whistles but what it does do is done fairly well with an expression of pride in design/materials/workmanship.
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I tried to find a vintage turntable, but everything I saw on both Craigslist and eBay was either in really bad shape or grossly overpriced. Vintage is THE thing right now, so vintage equipment that you would pay $100 just a few years ago is $500 now. I'm not willing to give my money to opportunists. On the other hand, one thing is to buy certain vintage equipment like receivers and amplifiers (I recently bought three Sansuis, an amplifier and two receivers), or equalizers like the Sansui SE-7 I got on eBay for $30 twelve years ago and other than the front light having died a few years ago, it still works perfect.

But in the case of equipment that are highly mechanical like a turntable, I'm weary of buying vintage that I don't know where it comes from, unless I know it belonged to a good friend that took good care of it. It has too many things that deteriorate with time, and we're talking about things that are 40+ years old. With used receivers, most likely you will have to use the Caig kit to clean the pots, if it's working fine otherwise.

The Teac TN-300 seemed to me like a good choice for in the $300 price range, with the other option for a belt driven TT being the Denon DP-300F, but I had read too many reviews from users saying the speed would slow down for no reason, so I passed on it, and I was contemplating it against the Teac because it has automatic return, which the Teac doesn't have.

As for the U-Turn, I wouldn't get that for two reasons. One, I find it hideous, and while sound quality is the most important factor in deciding on a TT, I don't want to look at something so ugly every time I put on a record. It's basically a copy of the cheapest Pro-ject (or viceversa, I don't really know), but with the addition of that horrible switch on the top that makes it even uglier. The other reason I wouldn't get one is the belt around the platter. Recently I went to a high end Hi-Fi shop to see the Project Essential II, and that belt not only looks horrible, it's very easy to pull off when lifting the record, which I had read happens to a lot of people, and I managed to do that twice while I was testing it. Besides that, having to change the belt manually to switch speeds seems ridiculous to me. They want to make these things fancy looking but in the end to me is laziness in their design. The Teac has a similar minimalistic design, but it's beautiful except for the headshell, and it has a knob to switch speeds. I have quite a few 45 RPM records so I switch speeds often, and I didn't see myself messing with that belt over and over, and pulling it from the platter and having to waste time putting it back.
 
Sebastian as you are saying there are no real good choices at the $300 price point for new tables and even higher that will meet everything your looking for. There are vintage and near vintage tables out there that would be turn key fully operational but your going to have to be aware of the ones with the best reputation and be willing to devote time and effort in tracking them down from what I call the gold standard sellers not flippers on Craigslist or Ebay. I have AK friends who constantly tell me about vintage tables they purchased for more than reasonable prices that were in top shape. Another option is local AK fests where members have fully reconditioned tables for sale at more than fair prices. Another option is AKs Barter Town, Audio Asylum Trader and Audiogon to mention a few for tables being sold by experienced people. Admittedly your late to the turntable party but if you make an extra effort, devote the time you will come up with a table that will meet your needs at a price you can afford.
 
I agree with those that are recommending a higher quality used table. I was also considering a new table for the 'new' factor and the warranty, but I recently found a SL1200 M3D locally for less then the Teacs are selling for, and just had to add a headshell (and liberally use rubbing alcohol to clean the gunk off) - I could not be happier, and am listening to albums I have not heard in years with a big smile on my face. I counsel patience, and the right table will find you.
 
Sebastian it would be helpful for you to update where you live, city/town, state/province. For the hell of it I checked the Boston Craigslist for turntables, the majority were under $100 with a handful over $100. None were highend vintage but sure as hell they all had to be better than a Crosley, ION or any current table with the built in USB/phono preamp selling for $300-$500. One posting caught my eye, a lower end vintage Denon turntable, Pioneer receiver and pair of bookshelf speakers that looked decent, all for the princely sum of $100. If your halfway computer savey you should be able to get notifications when an item is posted for sale. Something good at a really good price isn't going to last long, you have to be quick with cash in hand, be able to test and KNOW what your buying and what it is worth keeping the character of the seller in mind. Another AK member I'v communicated with in FL has picked up one excellent vintage turntable after another at yard/garage/church sales etc paying peanuts, also preamps/ amps/receivers/speakers etc. You can do it to if you try.
 
majick47 said:
Sebastian it would be helpful for you to update where you live, city/town, state/province. For the hell of it I checked the Boston Craigslist for turntables, the majority were under $100 with a handful over $100. None were highend vintage but sure as hell they all had to be better than a Crosley, ION or any current table with the built in USB/phono preamp selling for $300-$500. One posting caught my eye, a lower end vintage Denon turntable, Pioneer receiver and pair of bookshelf speakers that looked decent, all for the princely sum of $100. If your halfway computer savey you should be able to get notifications when an item is posted for sale. Something good at a really good price isn't going to last long, you have to be quick with cash in hand, be able to test and KNOW what your buying and what it is worth keeping the character of the seller in mind. Another AK member I'v communicated with in FL has picked up one excellent vintage turntable after another at yard/garage/church sales etc paying peanuts, also preamps/ amps/receivers/speakers etc. You can do it to if you try.
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Thanks for the advice, but right now one thing I don't have a lot of is free time, so I can't spend it constantly looking on Craigslist or eBay for a used turntable, and based on my recent experience on eBay I see there are a lot of people selling vintage equipment that found at some flea market, grossly embellishing the description, and then what you get either doesn't work, or you have to spend $32 in a Caig audio kit, spend a lot of time reading about how to use it properly and then spend even more time taking the thing apart and cleaning it. I already had a reseller on eBay refund me both the cost of the receiver and the shipping because he misrepresented his auction, and I'm going to try to get at least half the money for a Sansui amplifier that according to another seller he had tested and worked great, but as soon as I connected it, all the pots are dirty and have a lot of cracking noise, and a switch that you have to press several times to get the speakers to work. So I'm done buying vintage equipment unless someone I trust and he had the item for many years. I recently bought two Sansui receivers and one amplifier, and the two I received so far have problems, one of which I'm going to spend time and money trying to fix because I really like it, another that probably will go to a shelf since it has broken parts, and another very expensive one on the way, which who knows what will it be like.

As for the Teac, I'm going to return it and for now hang on to my Audio Technica LP120, honestly the only reason I wanted another was that I could hear the motor (and very low) in either classical music or any other music whenever the song was ending, especially towards the center. However, I got used to it to the point where I can barely hear it anymore, and to my ears this TT along with the AT440MLb cartridge properly aligned sounds excellent, depending on the record of course. I'd rather spend the $300 in a large quantity of used and new records and enjoy them than keep wasting time looking for a vintage turntable (which I did for many days and didn't find anything that looked even remotely in good shape.)
 
Maybe a different/better phono preamp would mask the motor noise you're hearing with the LP120. If you're happy otherwise, make life easier and just stick with it.
 
grottyash said:
The phono preamp would make zero difference. The records sounds the way to do.
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I agree that a different phono preamp would make either negligible or no difference. Oftentimes, the "motor/rumble" sound you hear on some recordings is embedded in the LP.

A direct drive motor is quiet by design because it spins very slowly in comparison to belt drive motors. A direct drive motor spins at 33.3 or 45 rpm, whereas a belt drive motor spins at hundreds of rpm to get the platter to spin at 33.3 or 45.
 
I thought I and others gave the OP a few good suggestions re finding a reliable, decent sounding/performing vintage turntable but apparently he either wont or feels he cant devote the time to the search and has decided to take the easy but less satisfying way out with another table from the same mfg that has if not the same other drawbacks in build quality, design and performance. He has chosen his bed, let him sleep in it no matter how uncomfortable.
 
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