TEAC X1000R help needed

[Young46]

Hello, I am Young46 (Frank) and I recently purchased a TEAC X1000R R-R deck at an estate sale. The unit powered up but would not play a tape. I cleaned all the old grease and installed a new belt and it played a tape but not very well. I removed the pinch rollers and inspected them. Cleaning them produced a slightly better sound but still not good. I contacted Terry Witt at Terry's Rubber Rollers and sent my rollers to him to be rebuilt. Now playing in forward it sounds very good. In reverse, there is crosstalk however when I rewound the tape it played almost as well as in forward. But there has to be a problem. I have only worked on a few R-R decks and am not an expert by any stretch. The roller on the left side does not spin during playback. When I removed the roller to clean it up there is a small spring inside and it appeared to be slightly bent. I've attached a couple of photos. One is the roller from my machine and the other is a photo of the spring that is not from my machine but is the same spring as mine. Could this be the cause of the crosstalk in reverse play? Any help or advice is appreciated.

 

[SCompRacer]

Hello Frank.

That hairpin spring is there to provide a good ground for the auto reverse signal pin. Oil between the roller bushings and shaft could insulate and prevent a complete circuit. A conductive strip attached to the tape completes the circuit between the pin and roller for auto reverse. Typically folks get that spring caught between the roller shaft and end cap. The spring gets bound, twists and bends or breaks the wire. The first pic shows a factory length and shape spring. The second is one that had a small piece broken off and re-bent to function.

The service manual shows it over the shaft (pic 2) though some folks put it against the edge (pic 1). Either way a thrust washer should go over it. All rollers should have a second thrust washer on the opposite side. Tighten the cap and nudge the roller. If it springs back, its caught. The spring does add some slight resistance but it should spin freely without springing back. The more tension the spring has on the shaft, the more resistance to the roller. The spring should be flat on the roller so it doesn't rub on the retaining cap.

Good call going for reconditioned pinch rollers. Any slippage will cause problems with the dual capstan. Good job on routing the tape properly over the reverse pin. The hairpin spring wouldn't have anything to do with the problem you are having. Sounds like you could have a tape tension or tape path issue in reverse play.

Are the heads, capstans and tape guides clean? Acetone works well to remove tape residue. Setting tape tension on the X1000r requires a Tentelometer. One thing you could check for is 5v with tension arms taped in the halfway up position. At P106 (right side tension arm) and P107 (left) on the servo power board. Instructions attached. Note that bending the opto coupler bracket is required to adjust. One must ensure the opto coupler PCB is not damaged, pry up or down on bracket only and easy does it.

There is a three-position control for the auto reverse function. The owner's manual explains the operation.

EDIT: Did you clean and lube the pinch roller arms too? The pic shows before disassembly, clean and lube.

Rich

 

[Young46]

Rich, thank you for the response! I’m going to print it out and go through it and report back. Are tentelometers still available? I suppose it’s too much to hope for a spring to be available.

 

[SCompRacer]

You are most welcome Frank!

You can find used Tentelometers on ebay, but sometimes they are ridiculously priced. Sometimes they are missing the calibration weight (easily replaced), or the foam insert in the case is gone. The case with foam insert is most important so the prongs are not damaged. I got mine for $200.

There are several different models for different tape. Tape tensions for the X-1000r are 50-60 grams for play, ~ 110 grams for fast wind. You'd want one with that range around mid-scale.

I'm a hobbyist, not a tech but on the X-1000r you adjust tension with the tape moving so a spring scale may not provide a proper adjustment. The X-1000r capstan and reel motors are DC.

 

[Young46]

Hello Frank.

That hairpin spring is there to provide a good ground for the auto reverse signal pin. Oil between the roller bushings and shaft could insulate and prevent a complete circuit. A conductive strip attached to the tape completes the circuit between the pin and roller for auto reverse. Typically folks get that spring caught between the roller shaft and end cap. The spring gets bound, twists and bends or breaks the wire. The first pic shows a factory length and shape spring. The second is one that had a small piece broken off and re-bent to function.

The service manual shows it over the shaft (pic 2) though some folks put it against the edge (pic 1). Either way a thrust washer should go over it. All rollers should have a second thrust washer on the opposite side. Tighten the cap and nudge the roller. If it springs back, its caught. The spring does add some slight resistance but it should spin freely without springing back. The more tension the spring has on the shaft, the more resistance to the roller. The spring should be flat on the roller so it doesn't rub on the retaining cap.

Good call going for reconditioned pinch rollers. Any slippage will cause problems with the dual capstan. Good job on routing the tape properly over the reverse pin. The hairpin spring wouldn't have anything to do with the problem you are having. Sounds like you could have a tape tension or tape path issue in reverse play.

Are the heads, capstans and tape guides clean? Acetone works well to remove tape residue. Setting tape tension on the X1000r requires a Tentelometer. One thing you could check for is 5v with tension arms taped in the halfway up position. At P106 (right side tension arm) and P107 (left) on the servo power board. Instructions attached. Note that bending the opto coupler bracket is required to adjust. One must ensure the opto coupler PCB is not damaged, pry up or down on bracket only and easy does it.

There is a three-position control for the auto reverse function. The owner's manual explains the operation.

EDIT: Did you clean and lube the pinch roller arms too? The pic shows before disassembly, clean and lube.

Rich

Rich, I printed out your response and here is what I’ve done. Yes the heads, capstans and tape guides are all clean. I did a pretty thorough cleaning of the whole machine. I followed the instructions for setting the voltages. L was 3.567vdc before and 5.025vdc after. R was 4.145vdc before and 5.072vdc after. The tension arms were at mid point. And yes I cleaned and lubed the pinch roller arms. It still has the crosstalk problem in reverse play.

 

[tapetech]

Post photos of heads and capstans.
Best to use a belt from Teac.
Belt should shift sideways when you change play directions
A Tentelometer is necessary for any X-1000R repair
Each pinch roller arm has two pivots to fix. Did you do that?

 

[Young46]

Post photos of heads and capstans.
Best to use a belt from Teac.
Belt should shift sideways when you change play directions
A Tentelometer is necessary for any X-1000R repair
Each pinch roller arm has two pivots to fix. Did you do that?

I couldn’t find a belt from Teac. I got one from VINTAGE Electronics and one from eBay. I’ve tried both. Belt shifts when direction is changed. No I did not fix the pinch roller pivots. How do I do that. I can’t afford to buy a Tentelometer. And thank you so much for the response.

 

[Young46]

@tapetech if you are talking about fixing the pinch roller pivots by r&r and cleaning off old grease and re-greasing, then yes I did. I used white lithium grease. If you are talking about something else then no.

 

[SCompRacer]

Were the pinch roller arms disassembled and cleaned/lubed? Items 6 / 9 and 11 / 9. You have to remove the snap ring and release spring tension to get them apart.

The capstans look polished smooth and shiny which reduces grip on tape. tapetech may suggest wrapping some 100 grit sandpaper around a pinch roller with double sided tape to rough it up. I had to do that on one deck I fixed. The other option is to disassemble and bead blast the tape contact area.

 

[Young46]

Were the pinch roller arms disassembled and cleaned/lubed? Items 6 and 9. You have to remove the snap ring and release spring tension to get them apart.

The capstans look polished smooth and shiny which reduces grip on tape. tapetech may suggest wrapping some 100 grit sandpaper around a pinch roller with double sided tape to rough it up. I had to do that on one deck I fixed. The other option is to disassemble and bead blast the tape contact ends.

Yes, I disassembled the pinch roller arms. I made sure they were re-assembled correctly too. Cleaned them up really good. I will rough up the capstans and see what that does. Thanks!

 

[SCompRacer]

OK good, just wanted to be sure. I think it was suggested to run the deck a couple minutes with the sandpaper wrapped pinch roller. I honestly can't recall. You just power on and lift the tension arms and press play to engage the capstan motor and sandpaper wrapped pinch roller.

Two of my friends also have an X-1000r and I tell them if they leave the deck on with a tape on and tape tensioned but not playing, the capstan motor will run. Slack the tape so the arms drop or leave it off if not playing. No use putting miles on the motor if not playing a tape. Wear the motor brushes out, etc.

 

[tapetech]

No, not the pinch roller pivots. The pinch roller ARM pivots. Each arm has two pivots that can bind due to dried grease and sometimes a binding c-clip.

You can't fully repair and meet all specs without the Tentelometer.

 

[Young46]

No, not the pinch roller pivots. The pinch roller ARM pivots. Each arm has two pivots that can bind due to dried grease and sometimes a binding c-clip.

You can't fully repair and meet all specs without the Tentelometer.

 

[Young46]

@tapetech, I realize that being human I could have missed something in the cleaning process. Attached is a photo of the mechanism I believe you are referring to. I'm not sure if it is my recorder or one of the many other photos I was able to get in my research I did prior to working on it. I took the mechanism down all the way just like in the attached photo and cleaned and re-greased all the parts. As a result I believe the pinch roller mechanism works very well on mine. I appreciate you pointing it out. I take all advice very seriously.

I understand about the Tentelometer. My situation is this. I am 78 years of age. I am a hobbyist but I do have a fair amount of equipment for working on vintage gear. I am retired, living on a fixed income so I don't have access to additional funds for something like the Tentelometer. This is my second time to work on a R-R and don't anticipate working on any more. If I were younger I would not hesitate to buy one.

 

[tapetech]

Then you will need to "be ok" with a partial repair (with no Tentelometer).

 

[Young46]

I rea

Then you will need to "be ok" with a partial repair (with no Tentelometer).

I understand. Not at all trying to insult or question your knowledge. I was looking at old threads on tape repair and Draudio on AK says that he only uses a spring gage. Even on TEAC X1000 and X2000R decks. Just asking. Please don’t get upset. Will a spring gage work or is the Tetelometer the only one that will work for these decks. I do want to get it in good working order. There is a Tentel Tentelometer on ebay for $180 obo but as I understand it there is only one model that works for the X1000R. Maybe I could resell it? I appreciate your help very much.

I roughed up the capstans. A little better but still not acceptable in reverse play.

 

[SCompRacer]

If you mean this one on ebay for $180, it only goes to 40 grams. You need one that covers 40 to 110 grams, preferably with that range around mid-scale. There are more than one model that will work. You have to look at the scales. Some start at 60 grams (a little more than 2 ounces).

 

[Young46]

Yes

If you mean this one on ebay for $180, it only goes to 40 grams. You need one that covers 40 to 110 grams, preferably with that range around mid-scale. There are more than one that will work. You have to look at the scales.

Yes, that’s the one. Thanks for the info!

 

[SCompRacer]

Your other option is to use a finger to add some slight drag to the right reel while playing in reverse to see if it gets better or stays the same. That should tighten the tape across the heads.

Based on the large diameter tape guide between the heads you have a high serial number deck. Mine is like that and is in the 460xxx range.

 

[Young46]

Your other option is to use a finger to add some slight drag to the right reel while playing in reverse to see if it gets better or stays the same. That should tighten the tape across the heads.

Based on the large diameter tape guide between the heads you have a high serial number deck. Mine is like that and is in the 460xxx range.

Well that didn’t work. Maybe there’s more wrong with it than just the crosstalk. I wish there were an easy way to post a video.

Attached photo.