• Please note that Audiokarma will be offline briefly for updates early on Monday morning, September 28th.

Teach Me About Martin Logan Speakers

4Play

4Play

Super Member
Banned
For as long as I can remember, I have always had a distaste for Martin Logan speakers. There was something about their speakers that looked out of sorts to me to the point of being butt ugly. For reasons that is unknown to me, I am starting to come around, to almost appreciate the sound quality that produces the music the way it was intended to be heard, as close to being the most natural.

When I first entered into audio, the closest I ever came was being introduced to Magnepan, and I was highly impressed by the sound I was hearing. Being a novice on this style of speaker, the Magnepan and Martin Logan would be considered similar in design, which would be classified as electrostatic speakers?

I am afraid this path will end leading down the upgrade path for speakers. However, I am always looking for the best sound quality that can be had. So, if this means that I must take the path, I would like to find the last pair of speakers and be totally satisfied with what I have.

I am not getting younger, but I would like to live the remaining years enjoying the music my audio system is given me. :music:
 
Register to hide this ad
If you're looking at electrostatic speakers you need to consider a couple things. You'll need an amp with power and stable at 2 ohm's, these speakers are very directional so placement is a factor. That said, it's hard to beat the sound you'll get.
 
hionfi said:
If you're looking at electrostatic speakers you need to consider a couple things. You'll need an amp with power and stable at 2 ohm's, these speakers are very directional so placement is a factor. That said, it's hard to beat the sound you'll get.
Click to expand...

Tell me more about your experience, and what were your impressions of the speaker, sound quality, etc?
 
I don't think either is an electrostatic speaker.

The Martin Logans are usually a hybrid, conventional woofer with an electrostatic top end from the woofer up. Their $25,000 speaker is a full range electrostatic.

The Magnepans are planar magnetics with and without ribbon tweeters depending on model. Planar magnetics are the same principles as cones but flat. Ribbons are ribbons of aluminum foil (usually) that work the same as magnetic speakers.

You should visit the websites for these two makers and learn about their products and what they say are their strengths.

If you are looking for an electrostatic speaker, the Essence Electrostatic is a possible, and more affordable model.
 
Blue Shadow said:
I don't think either is an electrostatic speaker.

The Martin Logans are usually a hybrid, conventional woofer with an electrostatic top end from the woofer up. Their $25,000 speaker is a full range electrostatic.

The Magnepans are planar magnetics with and without ribbon tweeters depending on model. Planar magnetics are the same principles as cones but flat. Ribbons are ribbons of aluminum foil (usually) that work the same as magnetic speakers.

You should visit the websites for these two makers and learn about their products and what they say are their strengths.

If you are looking for an electrostatic speaker, the Essence Electrostatic is a possible, and more affordable model.
Click to expand...


After posting this thread, I watched a YT video of the history of Martin Logan. Yes, they are electrostatic speakers. I will have to check Magnepan and update this post on the result.

UPDATE:
This is what I found when I visited Magnepan's website.
Magnepan has been manufacturing innovative, world class stereo speakers for 45 years. Jim Winey, the inventor of the Magneplanar loudspeaker, first owned electrostatic loudspeakers and began experimenting to design an improved electrostatic speaker. In 1969, Jim invented the Magneplanar, a thin-film magnetic equivalent to the electrostat and founded Magnepan.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
4Play said:
For as long as I can remember, I have always had a distaste for Martin Logan speakers. There was something about their speakers that looked out of sorts to me to the point of being butt ugly. For reasons that is unknown to me, I am starting to come around, to almost appreciate the sound quality that produces the music the way it was intended to be heard, as close to being the most natural.

When I first entered into audio, the closest I ever came was being introduced to Magnepan, and I was highly impressed by the sound I was hearing. Being a novice on this style of speaker, the Magnepan and Martin Logan would be considered similar in design, which would be classified as electrostatic speakers?
...
Click to expand...

Magnepans and ML's are similar in that both are planar loudspeakers, but this as far as the similarity goes. Mags are planar with the "voicecoil" bonded to the diaphragm, and this oscillates between banks of fixed magnets.

Most ML's are electrostatic hybrids. That is, they use electrostatic panels and augment the deepest bass with conventional speakers. The panels have no voice coil to speak of; the diaphragm has a fixed electrostatic charge (like rubbing a balloon against your head), and this charge acts against the signal from the amplifier, which passes through step-up transformers in the speaker to create high voltage + and - signals. These signals charge the stators on either side of the diaphragm, and cause it's motion. In this sense the stators become the voice coils.

There are both advantages and disadvantages to both methods. Being dipolar, both require careful attention to placement to sound their best. 'Stats are prone to having wide impedance swings and can present a difficult load for amplifiers; Magnepans present a much more benign load on the amplifier since their impedance does change too much. It may depend upon the type of music you listen to, as well as how you listen, in order to determine if you will find either type satisfying, as some folks find the bass to be lacking, and they tend to sound the absolute best in a rather small place in the room. Both types can sound absolutely amazing, but so can more conventional loudspeakers. Is one type better than the other? No, not at all. Just different.
 
I have had a pair of original CLS for years. They are one of my 'do not sell' pairs of speakers.

The CLS is a full range electrostat - no dynamic woofer. Very coherent and transparent sound.

Take your time experimenting with placement and you should be able to get decent (not earth shaking) low end and a good soundstage.

These require an amp comfortable with low impedance (<2ohms in the highs) and with smooth highs - the CLS is a VERY clean window to the audio world and ANY grain in your amp will be mercilessly exposed. I use an Audio Research D160 with triode wired KT-90s. I have also used a pair of (VERY hard to find) modified Paracas 125a monoblocks (350 watts, rock solid down to 1 ohm).

Jazz, acoustic guitar, symphonic, rock (not metal), blues - all are reproduced faithfully.

Downsides?

The CLS does NOT 'pretty' things up.

Unless you integrate a sub (I did not), you will have limitations in the bottom 1 - 1 1/2 octaves.

Room treatments may be needed to control reflections.

Just my $.02.....YMMV. :)
 
I agree with everything TubeHiFiNut posted. It applies to most "full range" electrostatic speakers and (IMO) all Magneplanars most especially the sub woofer part.

PS: You may need room treatments because what's coming from the esl panels is so clear and clean you can hear what your room is doing.
 
I had Innersound speakers for a few years and grew bored with the head in vise 18in wide sweet spot. Every now and then I get an inch to try planar again, I had some small Magnepan speakers too. Every time I get close to revisiting another idea pops up and I go in that direction
Once was going to pro powered gear after VMPS planar hybrids were sold off, no I'm digging my first pair of properly set up monitors, maybe next itch will get scratch by Logan, Magnepan or similar.
 
13x24mancave said:
I had Innersound speakers for a few years and grew bored with the head in vise 18in wide sweet spot....
Click to expand...

I just got exposed to Acoustat Spectra 22's and they don't suffer from this. I have pretty good dispersion across my 20' room. Might want to give these a go, but they are 6' tall and 2' wide so they do need some room. :thmbsp:

Never had any experience with ML but the Prodigy's I've read are pretty good for a Hybrid. The issue, as people have alluded to, is getting the woofer to play well with the stat upper end. Beyond that, I'd look for a pair of Sound Lab Dynastats! Those I've read have really done an excellent job of melding in the dynamic woofer.

jnQrNz7DoWPnaZRUTs3Fhze0nZqxNJwHqBloag72cdM=w1024-h768-no
 
Last edited:
GuyK said:
Magnepans and ML's are similar in that both are planar loudspeakers, but this as far as the similarity goes. Mags are planar with the "voicecoil" bonded to the diaphragm, and this oscillates between banks of fixed magnets.

Most ML's are electrostatic hybrids. That is, they use electrostatic panels and augment the deepest bass with conventional speakers. The panels have no voice coil to speak of; the diaphragm has a fixed electrostatic charge (like rubbing a balloon against your head), and this charge acts against the signal from the amplifier, which passes through step-up transformers in the speaker to create high voltage + and - signals. These signals charge the stators on either side of the diaphragm, and cause it's motion. In this sense the stators become the voice coils.

There are both advantages and disadvantages to both methods. Being dipolar, both require careful attention to placement to sound their best. 'Stats are prone to having wide impedance swings and can present a difficult load for amplifiers; Magnepans present a much more benign load on the amplifier since their impedance does change too much. It may depend upon the type of music you listen to, as well as how you listen, in order to determine if you will find either type satisfying, as some folks find the bass to be lacking, and they tend to sound the absolute best in a rather small place in the room. Both types can sound absolutely amazing, but so can more conventional loudspeakers. Is one type better than the other? No, not at all. Just different.
Click to expand...

One clarification:

Magnepans are planar magnetic speakers - fixed magnets on one side, voice coil running full length on the mylar diaphragm.

Eminent Technology planar magnetic speakers have fixed magnets on both sides of the diaphragm.

I love Maggies and have had many pairs but they do not, IMHO, exhibit the same control as a true electrostat.
 
Some of the Magneplanars are push-pull with magnets on both sides of the speaker. The 20-series specifically.
 
4Play said:
I would like to find the last pair of speakers and be totally satisfied with what I have.
Click to expand...
You really should audition your choices to determine which set of compromises best fits your situation. I prefer full range electrostats, but big ones tend to be pricey. While I love their transparency, coherency is also very important to me.

As a result, I am not a big fan of running a monopolar woofer up to the fundamental frequencies of most instruments and voice transitioning to a dipolar electrostatic panel that necessarily has different directivity.

BTW, I first heard Maggies in '74, purchased some in '76 and moved to full range stats in '77. They're a keeper for me!

edit: I've heard really good things about the new Magneplanar ".7". I suspect a pair of those along with DWMs or subs would be a nice combo. There is a Magneplanar site called "MUG" found here where you'll find lots of users
 
Last edited:
I've only heard one pair of Martin Logans, owned by a friend. I had Magneplanar MMGs at the time. After five minutes of listening, I could tell that he had better mids and highs. But I had much better bass. I'm sure Martin Logan has done better since then. Bass performance probably remains as the characteristic most likely to disappoint, however. Martin Logan does not run their stat panels very low, so the critical mid-bass is done by the cone woofer. I prefer to crossover a sub at a lower frequency, below 80 Hz. YMMV.

Maggies are not electrostatic, and do not have quite the clarity of 'stats IME. Their membrane is acted upon by magnetic forces that are not distributed as uniformly as an electrostatic field, but they are wonderful-sounding speakers in their own right.
 
I own a pair of ML Sequel IIs that I purchased new somewhere in the mid nineties. I found that the more clean SS power I used them with the better they sounded. The best I could afford to drive them with was a Carver Sunfire and they really sounded good with it.
About 2008 I replaced the panels with new ones from ML and then sent the trannies and crossovers to ML and they sent me new ones. IIRC the new panels cost a whole lot less than they do today and I'm going to assume the transformers etc were cheaper too (what's not now-a-days?).
They sounded awesome with the Sunfire then I decided to go SET with Hornshoppe BL horns and the Sequels are in storage maybe waiting for me to hit the lottery and pair them with a Krell or something (!)
One thing I might mention is that when I purchased the Sequels Jim Power was still with ML and when I did the panels and trannies I was fortunate that he was still with ML and he went out of his way to help me out.
Alas, Jim is retired now.
One thing, if you buy used "vintage" ones expect the price for replacement parts to be thru the roof.
 
I like my ML Sequel IIs they are very well rounded. I'm a big speaker amp guy and the Sequel's have lots of bass and can hit hard like any rock speaker you know of. But yet will sound highly detailed, giving a wall of sound that makes you feel like your on the stage. Playing soft stuff they shine as well and @6' tall it doesn't matter if your sitting or standing.
 
4-2-7 said:
I like my ML Sequel IIs they are very well rounded. I'm a big speaker amp guy and the Sequel's have lots of bass and can hit hard like any rock speaker you know of. But yet will sound highly detailed, giving a wall of sound that makes you feel like your on the stage. Playing soft stuff they shine as well and @6' tall it doesn't matter if your sitting or standing.
Click to expand...

Had a pair of the original Sequels and agree that they are capable of bass and SPL that the CLS will not deliver.

Great speakers. :thmbsp:

I decided to keep the CLS due to the, to my ears, top to bottom cohesiveness of the full range electrostat CLS versus the hybrid Sequel.

I could easily be happy with either speaker. :yes:
 
TubeHiFiNut said:
Had a pair of the original Sequels and agree that they are capable of bass and SPL that the CLS will not deliver.

Great speakers. :thmbsp:

I decided to keep the CLS due to the, to my ears, top to bottom cohesiveness of the full range electrostat CLS versus the hybrid Sequel.

I could easily be happy with either speaker. :yes:
Click to expand...

You might like the fact I'm driving them now with 2 MC275 mono bridged @ 180 wpc. I do worry about them eating my amps though..:yes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom