Technics P23 and Vivid Line Experiences?

[mcdmgb]

Has anyone used the LP Gear Vivid Line a Technics P22, P23 or P24 cartridge? I'm looking to upgrade a P23 that I'm using on a Dual 1229. I think that an elliptical stylus is currently fitted and I find the treble to be a bit harsh at times. I am trying to determine if going to a better stylus might be beneficial.

Thanks

 

[Balifly]

Has anyone used the LP Gear Vivid Line a Technics P22, P23 or P24 cartridge? I'm looking to upgrade a P23 that I'm using on a Dual 1229. I think that an elliptical stylus is currently fitted and I find the treble to be a bit harsh at times. I am trying to determine if going to a better stylus might be beneficial.

Thanks

The VividLine on a Stanton 680 cartridge exhibits no harshness in the treble range.

You may want to try one on your P23.

On LPgear's web site, VidvidLine for the P22, P24 are a bit cheaper than the VividLine for the P23.

Probably old stocks price.

P22, P24
https://www.lpgear.com/product/PAS022HE.html
https://www.lpgear.com/product/PAS024HE.html

P23
https://www.lpgear.com/product/PAS023HE.html

 

[mcdmgb]

Yes the Vivid Line sounds nice on my Shure V-15 Type 3. I also noticed the pricing difference on the Technics cartridge. I'm more inclined to experiment at $80 than $100.

 

[Vinylmasters]

The VividLine on a Stanton 680 cartridge exhibits no harshness in the treble range.

You may want to try one on your P23.

On LPgear's web site, VidvidLine for the P22, P24 are a bit cheaper than the VividLine for the P23.

Probably old stocks price.

P22, P24
https://www.lpgear.com/product/PAS022HE.html
https://www.lpgear.com/product/PAS024HE.html

P23
https://www.lpgear.com/product/PAS023HE.html

I am still debating on whether or not to get their VL for my Stanton L747 p-mount (is that the same series as your 680?) - and then you kill me with this? I didn't know they made VL's for these too! I was going to plunge for a SAS for a Technics P33S too! I've had good luck with most of the VL's (all p-mounts - Shure, new style AT's REALLY good, others for the Red Ed and the Empire 195LT, well, not as good as I hoped, but still passable for most).

 

[Balifly]

I am still debating on whether or not to get their VL for my Stanton L747 p-mount (is that the same series as your 680?) - and then you kill me with this? I didn't know they made VL's for these too! I was going to plunge for a SAS for a Technics P338 too! I've had good luck with most of the VL's (all p-mounts - Shure, new style AT's REALLY good, others for the Red Ed and the Empire 195LT, well, not as good as I hoped, but still passable for most).

It is very difficult to replicate the Stanton house sound, must be the cantilever.

The VividLine comes pretty close to the Stanton high though.

Not sure what about the "Technics P338" and SAS, could you fit an old stock P23 SAS to it?
https://www.lpgear.com/product/ePAS023ESSAS.html

 

[Vinylmasters]

It is very difficult to replicate the Stanton house sound, must be the cantilever.

The VividLine comes pretty close to the Stanton high though.

Not sure what about the "Technics P338" and SAS, could you fit an old stock P23 SAS to it?
https://www.lpgear.com/product/ePAS023ESSAS.html

P33"S" (looked like an 8 to these old eyes though lol). And after looking, the don't make a VL for that one, but they do have an SAS, oddly enough. I have a P23 too, with an original Technics elliptical. It's a very underrated cart IMHO. I'd bet a VL would sound incredible on it. I need a Azden cart first though (ditto the Stanton VL. I just picked up another ADC PSX-30 for $59 shipped, so I have to wait another paycheck - keeps the wife at bay that way ).

 

[mcdmgb]

I went ahead and ordered the VL P24 stylus for my P23. I am curious to see how it stacks up against the Shure.

 

[Vinylmasters]

I went ahead and ordered the VL P24 stylus for my P23. I am curious to see how it stacks up against the Shure.

The V-15 is in another class, so keep that in mind. Generally though, their aftermarket styli are very good IMHO. Not identical, but 'decent' nonetheless.

 

[Vinylmasters]

It is very difficult to replicate the Stanton house sound, must be the cantilever.

The VividLine comes pretty close to the Stanton high though.

Not sure what about the "Technics P338" and SAS, could you fit an old stock P23 SAS to it?
https://www.lpgear.com/product/ePAS023ESSAS.html

Grabbed one of the Stanon VL's for my L7x7 Stanton. Sounds really good and that's just the first track! MUCH better than the the VL I grabbed for my Empire 195LT.

 

[mcdmgb]

The VL for the Technics arrived Friday from LP Gear. It might be a bit bright, but that's with only a few hours on it. Still I like what I hear, at least as an initial impression.

 

[By-Tor]

I had the Vivid Line and used it on both a Technics P22 and U25. I was unhappy with mine, very bright, brittle, and sibilant. However, I have been wondering recently if all the Vivid Lines have only one "voicing". It was bright on my low inductance Technics carts, with a standard 47k 150-250pf load, but many seem to love it on their higher inductance Shures and Stantons. If you are able to experiment with your resistance and capacitance loading, maybe you can tame the brightness on yours. I have just ordered a new one for my Stanton 681 to give another chance.

(edit: I made a mistake, for a few moments I thought I was back in 2019, but then I realized it's 2020! Sorry for resurrecting a year old thread. Oh well, I've made worse mistakes.

 

[revox-b77]

Revival is ok. I believe there is a stylus in the nude EVG line that will fit these Technics P22-P24 cartridges. I was thinking of trying one. @johnjhazel will know for sure.

 

[Vinylmasters]

I had the Vivid Line and used it on both a Technics P22 and U25. I was unhappy with mine, very bright, brittle, and sibilant. However, I have been wondering recently if all the Vivid Lines have only one "voicing". It was bright on my low inductance Technics carts, with a standard 47k 150-250pf load, but many seem to love it on their higher inductance Shures and Stantons. If you are able to experiment with your resistance and capacitance loading, maybe you can tame the brightness on yours. I have just ordered a new one for my Stanton 681 to give another chance.

(edit: I made a mistake, for a few moments I thought I was back in 2019, but then I realized it's 2020! Sorry for resurrecting a year old thread. Oh well, I've made worse mistakes.

Actually, I'm glad you did! I ended up getting the VL for a P-23, and absolutely love it. It was a bit bright and harsh at first, but that went away pretty quickly. I want to grab one of those nude pfan's for another I have as well.

 

[By-Tor]

Revival is ok. I believe there is a stylus in the nude EVG line that will fit these Technics P22-P24 cartridges. I was thinking of trying one. @johnjhazel will know for sure.

Interesting. Yes, actually I do see some on the auction bay for about 40 smacks, so I wonder how those will do. They are even listed as nude ellipticals.

Actually, I'm glad you did! I ended up getting the VL for a P-23, and absolutely love it. It was a bit bright and harsh at first, but that went away pretty quickly. I want to grab one of those nude pfan's for another I have as well.

I'm glad you liked yours, have you messed with your loading at all? I do wonder if there was something wrong with mine, I wish I still had it so I could do some testing. Oh well, I'll report back here on the one I ordered for my Stanton. I've heard reports of the vivid line also doing great on Audio-Technica's and I've also heard some cheap Pfanstiehls sound excellent on them too. They are probably some of the best cart bodies to have around as far as stylus choices go, there is tons of them.

 

[Vinylmasters]

Interesting. Yes, actually I do see some on the auction bay for about 40 smacks, so I wonder how those will do. They are even listed as nude ellipticals.



I'm glad you liked yours, have you messed with your loading at all? I do wonder if there was something wrong with mine, I wish I still had it so I could do some testing. Oh well, I'll report back here on the one I ordered for my Stanton. I've heard reports of the vivid line also doing great on Audio-Technica's and I've also heard some cheap Pfanstiehls sound excellent on them too. They are probably some of the best cart bodies to have around as far as stylus choices go, there is tons of them.

Nope. As is, a Technics SL-1301 direct to a Sony receiver (forgot the model - it's a 125 watts per channel tho, not a little one). I have a few VL's now, and they are hit and miss, but the ones for the AT's all seem to be very good. I am NOT enthralled with the VL for my Stanton 727 however. I can't get rid of the ssssibilance no matter what I do on many records (one record sound great, the next unbearable), so be warned there.

 

[By-Tor]

I can't get rid of the ssssibilance no matter what I do on many records (one record sound great, the next unbearable), so be warned there.

Wow, it really does sound like they have manufacturing problems if that's the case. This time I'm going to listen to it immediately so I don't go out of the warranty period. If I get a dud, they are getting it back. One thing though, were you using it on a p-mount table or on a 1/2" adapter? I measured my vivid line at 21mm from the back of the cartridge, so it was 1mm off from t4p spec. It was also much higher off the record than any of my other p-mount styli. I don't know how much of a difference that actually made though, because it also didn't sound good on my 1/2" table with VTA dialed in. I hope it's a decent one this time.

 

[Vinylmasters]

Wow, it really does sound like they have manufacturing problems if that's the case. This time I'm going to listen to it immediately so I don't go out of the warranty period. If I get a dud, they are getting it back. One thing though, were you using it on a p-mount table or on a 1/2" adapter? I measured my vivid line at 21mm from the back of the cartridge, so it was 1mm off from t4p spec. It was also much higher off the record than any of my other p-mount styli. I don't know how much of a difference that actually made though, because it also didn't sound good on my 1/2" table with VTA dialed in. I hope it's a decent one this time.

I'm using a Technics p-mount headshell, but the setup is spot on. I have a bunch of different carts and swap all the time but this one has just been problematic for some reason.

 

[bigaltx24]

Wow, it really does sound like they have manufacturing problems if that's the case. This time I'm going to listen to it immediately so I don't go out of the warranty period. If I get a dud, they are getting it back. One thing though, were you using it on a p-mount table or on a 1/2" adapter? I measured my vivid line at 21mm from the back of the cartridge, so it was 1mm off from t4p spec. It was also much higher off the record than any of my other p-mount styli. I don't know how much of a difference that actually made though, because it also didn't sound good on my 1/2" table with VTA dialed in. I hope it's a decent one this time.

I've seen that quite a few times on aftermarket styli. Sometimes they are about 1mm over spec. It's not a problem if they are mounted on a 1/2" adapter, but they will never sound good on a TP4 arm.

 

[By-Tor]

Okay, it took long enough, but it finally arrived this afternoon. First inspection of cantilever looks nice and straight, and diamond is seated in the correct position. I spent a good while dialing everything in on my Mitsu LT-22, and am currently listening to it as I type this. I first listened to Gordon Lightfoot's Sundown, followed by Dueling Banjo's from the Deliverance soundtrack, and currently listening to Tchaicovsky: Symphony 6 on RCA Gold Label. Aannnnnd.... so far it's excellent. Not a hint of sibilance on these records, although I'll continue listening for it on some of my other records. But the tonal balance is great, sound stage is nice and wide, and I'm hearing almost no tracing distortions. Next will be Phil Collins for a Sussudio sibilance test. Oh and btw, this is the 680EE-S Vivid Line (https://www.lpgear.com/product/STNS680EES.html), Chose it because it only cost $79.99 and I believe they are all identical anyways. Running currently on a Stanton 680 EL body at 1.3 grams. I'll update after some more critical listening.

Edit: VTA with this stylus on this body needs to be nose up tail down by a fair amount to get close to a perfect VTA. I had to lower my tonearm all the way down, and add a second mat to my platter and I will probably need to add some shims to the cartridge as well. It's close enough for now though.

 

[By-Tor]

Welp, after spending some time with this combo, it holds up really well. The only negative I can give it, is that it doesn't do great with worn records. It tends to pick up a lot of junk noise on my more "well-loved" thrift finds. My at440mlb, shure n97lt, and stereohedron, all do better in this regard (but that is to be expected with nude mounted higher quality diamonds, better tracing and tracking). However, it does great on my newer records, and combats IGD respectably. Frequency response is pretty flat at a base loading of 47k 250pf. The Stanton 680/681 sound signature is one of my favorites and it is preserved with this stylus. I have compared it to my nos 681eee MKII S stylus and they are very similar in their sound. Maybe I can figure out a way to upload the comparison I recorded.

@Vinylmasters On your VL you got for the 727, which one did you get? Was it the D747SVL in the clear plastic housing? I'm curious if the p-mount versions have exactly the same measurements as the 1/2" versions. My VL in a l737 body is about 22.2mm distance from base of cartridge to stylus tip. 2.2mm out of spec is pretty bad if I wanted to use it on my p-mount deck. I was curious if yours is any closer to the 20mm spec.