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Technics P33 cartridge question

BillWojo

BillWojo

Addicted Member
I might be picking up a Technics SL-QX200 this weekend with a P33 cart on it. Supposedly it's all in great shape and works well. I assume that the P33 is in the same family as the P23, P24, etc. Or is it better, worse or the same. Not a lot of info on the differences in these carts but supposedly with a good stylus they are great sounding.
If I get it the game plan is to use the cart along with my Shure M92e/N97xE cart and A/B them on my Technics SL-M3 table. Probably have to get a new stylus for the P33 first though. Can't afford the real high end P-mount carts so I figured I'd do a little testing and see what I like better.

BillWojo
 
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BillWojo said:
I assume that the P33 is in the same family as the P23, P24, etc.
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As far as I can tell, having measured many of these lower-tier bodies, yes, they're basically all the same, differing only by normal production variation and possibly quality control. The styli, despite the Nagaokalike variety of mouth-watering Jolly Rancher colors, seem to be basically one variety of conical and one variety of elliptical, with the exception of the P22/202 with its boron tube cantilever. The ellipticals differ slightly in their FR spec, but this could easily be merely a QC thing, not due to any design change/improvement (SPOILER: but keep reading until you see the words "bewegte Masse").

This is all provisional, because specs on the vast majority of these models are completely lacking. I'm only able to extrapolate based on a sample size of ten or so.

BillWojo said:
Not a lot of info on the differences in these carts but supposedly with a good stylus they are great sounding.
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Agreed on both counts.

BillWojo said:
...the game plan is to use the cart along with my Shure M92e/N97xE cart and A/B them on my Technics SL-M3 table.
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The two cartridges will sound very different, due to the intentional upper-midrange + treble rolloff of the N97xE stylus. But they'll both be capable of good performance otherwise.

You might consider upgrading the P33 with the hyperelliptical-equipped P24 stylus, available through several vendors, one of which is here.
 
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Thanks Wualta, you would think that somebody has a file or spec sheet some where with all this info. Someone at Panasonic must know. I mean how did the Technics dealers really know what cart was better? Sure the MC carts were known to be the top of the line but the variations of the lower Pxx carts, where did they fit n. Maybe an original price sheet would give us a clue.
Thanks again.

BillWojo
 
Just referred one of those a week or so ago, they are awesome. Maybe the best in that range of tables.
 
I passed on this table as the only reason I was interested was to get the cartridge and for almost a hundred dollars, well, to much for it. The table would have just gathered dust so I'll keep an eye out for a better deal. Figure I'll find a P-mount Technics on one of the cheaper units for 20 bucks or so sooner or later.
In the mean time my stylus for my Shure M92E came in. I put a N97xE on it and it sounds awesome on my SL-M3. So I'm in no hurry but I will keep an eye out for the Technics cart.

BillWojo
 
The Technics is one cartridge that can usually be found on eBay for reasonable coin on its own-- ie, from $10 to $20.

There are two styles of stylus-- the clear "Jolly Rancher" style with no identifying printing whatsoever, and the opaque kind with "Technics" and "Pwhatever" on them. As far as I can tell, opacity doesn't necessarily indicate a more capable stylus, but it does show instantly whether a given stylus is genuine or an aftermarket job.
 
BillWojo said:
I might be picking up a Technics SL-QX200 this weekend with a P33 cart on it. Supposedly it's all in great shape and works well. I assume that the P33 is in the same family as the P23, P24, etc. Or is it better, worse or the same. Not a lot of info on the differences in these carts but supposedly with a good stylus they are great sounding.
If I get it the game plan is to use the cart along with my Shure M92e/N97xE cart and A/B them on my Technics SL-M3 table. Probably have to get a new stylus for the P33 first though. Can't afford the real high end P-mount carts so I figured I'd do a little testing and see what I like better.

BillWojo
Click to expand...

I have a P33S, with spec sheet. It's a conical. I have a P23 as well (an elliptical), which is better IMHO. But I'd still; steer you towards an AT92E. I also have the N97xE on a p-mount cart (mine's on a Rat Shack RXT5), but on those plastic bodied Technics tables the 'cheap' AT92E sounds much better on them, while the Shure's seem to be better on wood-base tables from my findings anyway.
 
Vinylmasters, the p-mount table I'm using is a Technics SL-M3, 33 lbs of goodness with a linear tracking arm. Better specs than a SL-1200MK5!
I'd eventually like to get a Technics Pxx cart and a AT cart with decent stylus so I can compare them. So far the Shure is sounding good.

BillWojo
 
wualta said:
As far as I can tell, having measured many of these lower-tier bodies, yes, they're basically all the same, differing only by quality control. The styli, despite the Nagaokalike variety of mouth-watering Jolly Rancher colors, seem to be basically one variety of conical and one variety of elliptical, with the exception of the P22/202 with its boron tube cantilever.

This is all provisional, because specs on the vast majority of these models is completely lacking. I'm only able to extrapolate based on a sample size of ten or so.
Click to expand...

wualta,

Here is a link to some specification on the

Technics EPC-P23
http://www.audio-heritage.jp/TECHNICS/etc/epc-p23.html :music:
 
Bali: Thanks for that link-- that's a very handy website. I do have specs on the P205CMk3, P22, P23 and P28, which I believe were, from the tone and date of the brochure, the first-gen p-mount cartridges from Technics. Problem is, the specs, though helpful, aren't complete enough to tell us if the bodies changed from model to model to accommodate different stylus 'voicing', if any. In other words, they don't tell us if we can swap a P22 stylus onto a P28 body and still get flat response. We have to do the relevant measurements ourselves. They don't even tell us the stylus dimensions!
 
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I could do a comparison as I have a 1/2" adapter as well as one of these p mount headshells (SH-90S)

But from what I recall it's a one of those scenarios where the compliance match is better with a lesser mass headshell, plus without the resonance of the plastic adapter between the cart and the headshell.

I run mine with a JICO SAS. sounds brilliant, probably 2nd only to my At Oc9ML IIuploadfromtaptalk1436184231937.jpg
 
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Avoision of the notorious p-mount adapter thingy and its extra mass and height is one reason I got a Technics U25 standard-mount body for the p-mount styli. Looks like this (note the threaded holes):
Technics U25 top (2)a.jpg

Inductance (measured at 800Hz) averages 345mH per channel, ±6mH. With the P22 stylus, the whole thing weighs just under 5g-- quite light. Puts you ahead of the compliance/arm-mass game.
 
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I've been digging around for specs and found a few more. Interesting, but still not complete-- though note that in these upperish models, the frequency response spec extends farther out the lower the "bewegte Masse", or effective tip mass. This will be, until we find more brochures, the only clue we get that some Technics p-mount styli are better than others!

Thought you'd like to see three of the more interesting lower-tier models of 1986. The 550 is just a tick better spec'd than the old P22/202. The 540 has a titanium cantilever and the effective mass is specified (roughly the same as the Empire 4000Ds). Even the 530 gets a bewegte Masse spec (roughly the same as the old Empire 1000ZE/X).
Technics EPS-P530 540 550 specs.jpg
 
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Wualta, your bad for my wallet! I mentioned a Technics SL-QX200 that the guy wanted 95 bucks for with a EPC-P33 cart. Well he dropped it to 75 bucks so I went and looked at it. Had it on a test system so I could at least hear that the cart worked. Got it for 70 bucks and now I have a clean TT to sell plus the cart.

So I got home and pulled the cart off. First thing I noticed is gold plated pins. Good sign. Looked at it under a 15X magnifier and it was piled full of crud. Used a soft stylus cleaning brush and so far I can tell you that it appears to be a bonded diamond on an aluminum cantilever. It's very hard to tell if it's conical or elliptical so I'm not going to take a guess.

I put on George Thorogoods "Bad to the Bone" and listened to it with my Shure M92e/N97eX combo and than put the P33 cart on. I only have a few hours on the Shure and who knows how many hours on the P33 but initial impressions are that I like it. Seems a bit crisper? I don't have a trained ear so I don't really know what to listen for.

As an added bonus it "completes" the look of the tonearm on my SL-M3. Both the stylus and the cartridge are original Technics with the stylus marked Technics P33 and the cart having the EPC-P33 designation on it. One more bonus is that the cart had the original plastic slip cover on it so the original owner seemed to take care of it.

Wualta, I hope your keeping track of all the info so that you can eventually compile a fairly complete listing of all the Technics carts out there. I'll be looking for cheap TT that have Technics carts so if I find any I will add to the collective knowledge base. Many thanks to all the good info that you have found already.

BillWojo

On Edit: I realized I put this response on the P23 thread and it really belonged here so I just cut and pasted it. Sorry about that
 
Yes, especially if you can't find a 22, 202 or 550 stylus for reasonable. I find the Technics SAS a tad bright in my system, but with good tone controls and/or adjustable resistance loading (below 47k), that can be brought under control.
 
Just some pics from some of my collection:

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Some things I noticed:
- the P30 comes in varieties with gold plated and regular pins
- some P23 / P24 do not have the T4P logo, some do. The newer types (P30, P33 etc) do always have the T4P logo
- the gold plating on the P202c is duller than on the likes of the P23, P24, P33, P30 etc]
- the P33's and P520 come with Matsushita branding & Made in Japan print, the others just have the word Technics on it
- spec wise they are all marketed as having laminated cores, disc shaped samarium cobalt magnets (cartridge) and one-point suspension (stylus)
- most importantly, all these bodies sound very similar ;)
 
I would not be surprised if the bodies were all the same, just manufacturing tolerances could make small differences. I do like your collection though.

BillWojo
 
I agree, they spec / measure / sound the same, gold plated pins or not. ;)

I think the P202c and P33 are "hand picked" ones from the P23/P24/P30 lot, no more.

These carts can be had dirt cheap, be it including a Technics turntable or without. I bought some SL-D210, SL-D22, SL-J's etc for prices of 10-25 bucks each and they included the cartridge and stylus. Without the turntable they can perhaps be had a tiny little bit cheaper, but hey, why not get a TT with it for free. ;)
 
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