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Technics phono help.

TheNickSmith

New Member
I got a technics Sa-5170 for a couple of bucks at a yard sale a bit ago. I went ahead to test it, everything worked fine exept for the phono stage. At regular volume it was very low and had a faint high pitched noise. And had a loud high pitched noise and would have a loud buzz and the bulbs would dim when the volume was high. I took it apart and found out that when I removed C409 and C410 the the high pitched noise went away and it was loud and full. The caps tested fine and I put a new one in and it did the same thing. When I turn it up still it has a loud noise and the bulbs dim. Could this be from oscillation or something else? I really need help on this. I do respond pretty quickly so please help. IMG_1694.jpeg
 
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Your test (removing C409/C410 fixes volume/noise) confirms the issue is in the feedback loop of IC402—those caps are essential for stability, but if they're faulty or if the IC/transistors around it are degrading, it destabilizes the amp.

Why Oscillation (and Power Supply Sag)?
  • High-Pitched Noise = Oscillation: The phono stage is a high-gain (~40-60dB) circuit for weak cartridge signals (2.5mV input sensitivity). Without proper phase compensation, it can oscillate at ultrasonic/high frequencies (10-50kHz, sounding like a faint "whine" or "squeal"). At low volume, it's subtle; at high volume, the amp drives harder, amplifying the oscillation into audible buzz/distortion. Removing C409/C410 breaks the feedback loop partially, stopping oscillation (but also messing up RIAA EQ response, hence why you need them back in).
  • Low Volume: Oscillation injects noise that masks the signal and loads the output, reducing effective gain.
  • Loud Buzz + Bulbs Dim at High Volume:
    • Oscillation draws excess current from the power supply, causing rail sag (voltage drops from ~±15V to lower under load).
    • Bulbs dim because the main AC transformer is overloaded momentarily—the receiver pulls ~300W max, but phono oscillation can spike current draw in the preamp.
  • Not "Something Else":
    • Bad input coupling caps (e.g., C811/C821 electrolytics): Would cause DC offset or hum, not high-pitched noise.
    • Ground loop: Would be 60Hz hum, not high-pitch.
    • Bad IC402: Possible, but oscillation often precedes full failure.
    • Cartridge/stylus issue: Unlikely, as removing caps fixes it (and other inputs work fine).
  • Common in Vintage Technics: Electrolytic caps in the supply dry out, increasing ripple/ESR (equivalent series resistance), which destabilizes high-gain ICs like this. Transistors (e.g., in the regulator) can also leak with age.
Troubleshooting Steps
Don't electrocute yourself.
  1. Visual Inspection:
    • Check for bulging/leaky electrolytics around IC402 (C404, C406, C408, C410) and supply (C44, C45).
    • Look for cracked solder joints on IC402 pins or R46/R48.
    • Ensure no cold solder on phono input jacks.
  2. DC Voltage Checks (Power On, No Signal, Volume Low):
    • Probe IC402 power pins (likely pin 4 = -Vee, pin 8 = +Vcc; confirm with full schematic if possible).
      • Expect ~+12-18V on + rail, -12-18V on - rail (relative to GND).
      • If sagging or noisy, supply issue.
    • Output pins (2/5): Should be ~0V DC with no signal (offset <50mV).
    • If offset >100mV, bad feedback caps or IC.
  3. Capacitor Testing:
    • You said C409/C410 "tested fine," but ESR matters for ceramics/discs—use an ESR meter if you have one (or swap with known-good 0.1µF 50V ceramics).
    • Test electrolytics: C404/C406/C408 (10-47µF, 25V) in the amp—high ESR causes instability.
    • Supply caps: C44/C45 (large electrolytics, 1000µF+ 25V)—these often fail first.
  4. Oscillation Detection:
    • Hook up a turntable (or test signal generator at 1kHz, 2.5mV).
    • Use an oscilloscope on IC402 output pins: Look for sine-wave oscillation (high freq, small amplitude at low vol; grows with vol).
    • No scope? Listen with headphones on REC OUT (tape monitor)—faint whine confirms.
    • High volume test: Monitor supply voltage at IC402 pins—if drops >2V, confirm sag.
  5. Grounding Check:
    • Verify phono GND lug is soldered securely to chassis. Clean jacks.



Replace C409 & C410 with fresh 0.1µF ceramic (50V, low ESR like NP0 type). Solder in temporarily—test volume/noise.
~$1 each. If fixes but RIAA curve off (boomy highs), values are correct per schematic.

Phono Amp Electrolytics
Replace C404, C406, C408 (all channels, 10-22µF 25V audio-grade).
Use Nichicon or Panasonic FC series for low noise.

Power Supply Stabilizers
filter caps C44/C45 (2200µF 25V). Check diodes D701/D702 for shorts.

Bulb dimming = sag; new caps fix ripple.

If Oscillation Persists
Add small compensation: 10-47pF ceramic across R46/R48 (feedback). Or bypass IC402 with socket—test/replace if dead (~$10 on eBay, AN7129 equiv).
Oscillation from layout—keep leads short.
 
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