Technics SB-7000 vs Kef 103/3

[bublipax]

Hello folks! I'm a long time lurker and a first time poster here. I apologize for my grammar mistakes as english isn't my native language. I really appreciate and thank you for all the information I've learned from here.

I'm 28 years old and have been into vintage equipment for a couple of years now. The first thing I noticed is that while equipment starts flowing in, there's never enough speakers or enough room. There's no such thing as extra money on my savings account anymore, only new equipment.

I now have few amplifiers and my main speakers are a pair of JBL L-110's that have a problem with one tweeter - it sounds a bit muddy and playing frequencies above 3000 Hz sound a bit flat. The crossovers have been updated with audio grade capacitors and measured so the problem is in the tweeter itself. I'm not able to source a new tweeter and don't know if this could be fixed so I probably need to part with the JBL's and look for something else.

I've now had an offer of Technics SB-7000's with extra pair of tweeters for $350 and Kef 103/3's with Kube for $430. I listen to rock from the 70's, pop and jazz mostly and have enjoyed my JBL's so far except for the other tweeter so would it be wise to go for one of these options or should I use the money to get my JBL's fixed (if even possible)?

 

[canuckaudiog]

I think the 103/3 is going to be the best of what you have. I've owned and heard all three of these speakers, although not side by side.

The 103/3 will require the most restoration work, but is worth it and fairly simple to do. Do they come with the optional stands?

I liked the L110s I had, but I did find they sounded a bit artificial. They were a great rock speaker, capable of playing many genres, but I did not think highly of them because I prefer a natural sounding speaker. The 103/3 has a fluid sounding midrange with nice timbre, and the bass is very impressive for the cabinet size. The SB-7000 is a great speaker too, however again I find it has an artificial sound and would not quite touch the lucidity of the 103/3.

That's my $0.02.

 

[bublipax]

I think the 103/3 is going to be the best of what you have. I've owned and heard all three of these speakers, although not side by side.

The 103/3 will require the most restoration work, but is worth it and fairly simple to do. Do they come with the optional stands?

I liked the L110s I had, but I did find they sounded a bit artificial. They were a great rock speaker, capable of playing many genres, but I did not think highly of them because I prefer a natural sounding speaker. The 103/3 has a fluid sounding midrange with nice timbre, and the bass is very impressive for the cabinet size. The SB-7000 is a great speaker too, however again I find it has an artificial sound and would not quite touch the lucidity of the 103/3.

That's my $0.02.

Thank you for your reply! Having owned all those speakers I value your thoughts.

Yes, the Kef's come with stands and are in great condition overall (no scratches) except for all the work that they need being in original condition (caps, donut, foam and ferrofluid needing replacements). Do you think they're really worth that much? The seller is not willing to drop the price because there's other buyers behind me in the queue (a common sales tactic, I know) but I live in a nordic european country and I saw 104/2's for the same price not too long ago - I was a few minutes too late to snap buy those beauties. After all, it's going to be around $150-$200 on top of that $430 to get those back in original condition. I would say that typically vintage gear goes for 1/2-2/3 of the price here compared to US prices and you can find real bargains sometimes... the only problem being that not too many units were ever imported so it could be a long time before anything this interesting hits my radar.

 

[bublipax]

Also, I like to listen to music with low volume levels sometimes and my JBL's tend to need some power to really make them sing. What is your opinion, are 103/3's sensitive enough to work at lower levels and bring an improvement compared to my JBL's? I know it depends on many other things like the amplifier, room acoustics etc but discarding everything else than the speakers, would you think 103/3's work with low levels better than L-110's?

I also have Pioneer CS-R700's that really work well with low volume levels basically because their mid range is so effective but I don't like the sloppy bass they offer.

 

[canuckaudiog]

I will disagree! Being you like 70's rock I will say technics will win hands down on kef in bass dept. also those tweets in sb-7000 are sweet and bring good money themselves! A extra set will sell for 200+, so you are getting sb-7000 for 150.00 or less! The only advantage I see that kefs have over technics is resale value. People seem to only fork over cash for SL-1200's not there speakers!

The Technics don't have a lot of extension. I'd be willing to bet the Kefs actually go deeper. The KUBE extends the bass quite a bit and sounds good while at it. The bass is what I find the most lacking in the SB7000 personally. Have you heard a properly working pair of 103/3s? The issue with them is they sound much better when restored whereas the Technics will likely still sound OK. Which is unfortunate because most folks don't get to hear what is so great about that series of KEF.

As for restoring, I wouldn't do the caps right away. That will save you a chunk of change right there.

As far as sensitivity the Kefs are 92DB so no difference there over the JBLs. I found mine to sound great at low volumes but like you mention there are a lot of factors involved. They will almost definitely be an improvement over the JBLs, the only thing that may differ is they are a different flavour. How much do you like the JBLs?

 

[canuckaudiog]

Published specs on the SB7000 vs Kef 103/3 show the response of the SB7000 to go as low as 37Hz at -10dB, whereas the 103/3 can go as low as 35Hz at -6dB.

So, the 103/3 does indeed go deeper than the SB7000.

 

[bublipax]

also those tweets in sb-7000 are sweet and bring good money themselves! A extra set will sell for 200+, so you are getting sb-7000 for 150.00 or less!

That's only partly true. In my country there's really no interest in those extra tweeters because there were probably less than 5 pairs of SB-7000's ever imported. This might even be the only pair. The seller ordered those from abroad and they're basically useless until the original tweets blow - highly unlikely situation. And the stress to sell those tweeters abroad would be too much and probably too expensive because we have insane delivery fees.

Have you heard a properly working pair of 103/3s? The issue with them is they sound much better when restored whereas the Technics will likely still sound OK. Which is unfortunate because most folks don't get to hear what is so great about that series of KEF.

As for restoring, I wouldn't do the caps right away. That will save you a chunk of change right there.

As far as sensitivity the Kefs are 92DB so no difference there over the JBLs. I found mine to sound great at low volumes but like you mention there are a lot of factors involved. They will almost definitely be an improvement over the JBLs, the only thing that may differ is they are a different flavour. How much do you like the JBLs?

I REALLY like my JBL's, the L-110's are a phenomenal pair of speakers and they're my first restoration project that turned out great otherwise but the problem with the other tweeter bugs me too much even though it's not audible most of the time. My friends who are into audiophile gear haven't heard it until I've pointed them at the problem and done sweeps on both channels. I might have more sensitive ears than they because I'm a musician, don't really know but it bugs me. If I'd like to enhance the JBL's otherwise, they could be a little less dark and I'd like some more dynamics and a clearer sound stage because it's hard to separate instruments and point where they are when listening to live records. This is easier on my Pioneer's so I guess it's the middle range that's lacking on my JBL's? I like the highs and the snappy bass that's not boomy.

I haven't heard any Kef's actually and it would be my first pair of English speakers.

I will call both sellers tomorrow and try to get the prices down. Probably won't happen with Technics' because I've already bargained quite a big chunk off the price. I've done a lot of googling and seen ad's here and there from the past few years and seen 103/3's ranging from $200-$300 so they're a lot more common than SB-7000's here and a bit on the pricey side on this occurrence. As I said earlier, I saw a pair of 104/2's for the same price a while ago and they had been sitting for almost a week at that price on the most famous online marketplace here until someone bought 'em - a few minutes before I noticed.

Also, something to keep in mind is that it's impossible to get any of the stuff to restore those Kef's from my country so that means expensive shipping fees on top of everything.

 

[canuckaudiog]

That's only partly true. In my country there's really no interest in those extra tweeters because there were probably less than 5 pairs of SB-7000's ever imported. This might even be the only pair. The seller ordered those from abroad and they're basically useless until the original tweets blow - highly unlikely situation. And the stress to sell those tweeters abroad would be too much and probably too expensive because we have insane delivery fees.



I REALLY like my JBL's, the L-110's are a phenomenal pair of speakers and they're my first restoration project that turned out great otherwise but the problem with the other tweeter bugs me too much even though it's not audible most of the time. My friends who are into audiophile gear haven't heard it until I've pointed them at the problem and done sweeps on both channels. I might have more sensitive ears than they because I'm a musician, don't really know but it bugs me. If I'd like to enhance the JBL's otherwise, they could be a little less dark and I'd like some more dynamics and a clearer sound stage because it's hard to separate instruments and point where they are when listening to live records. This is easier on my Pioneer's so I guess it's the middle range that's lacking on my JBL's? I like the highs and the snappy bass that's not boomy.

I haven't heard any Kef's actually and it would be my first pair of English speakers.

I will call both sellers tomorrow and try to get the prices down. Probably won't happen with Technics' because I've already bargained quite a big chunk off the price. I've done a lot of googling and seen ad's here and there from the past few years and seen 103/3's ranging from $200-$300 so they're a lot more common than SB-7000's here and a bit on the pricey side on this occurrence. As I said earlier, I saw a pair of 104/2's for the same price a while ago and they had been sitting for almost a week at that price on the most famous online marketplace here until someone bought 'em - a few minutes before I noticed.

Also, something to keep in mind is that it's impossible to get any of the stuff to restore those Kef's from my country so that means expensive shipping fees on top of everything.

Where are you located?

Well, if you really like the JBLs you may not like the KEFs. The KEFs are going to be quite a bit different. More laid back, less in your face with a subtler but deeper bass, a fluid midrange and likely a bit softer top end. They are not your typical British speaker but are certainly more laid back than the JBLs. Of course, you never know until you try. I think at the very least the JBLs are a better speaker than the Technics, as those will have more similarities than differences. The JBLs will definitely have the better bass of the two.

 

[bublipax]

Where are you located?

Well, if you really like the JBLs you may not like the KEFs. The KEFs are going to be quite a bit different. More laid back, less in your face with a subtler but deeper bass, a fluid midrange and likely a bit softer top end. They are not your typical British speaker but are certainly more laid back than the JBLs. Of course, you never know until you try. I think at the very least the JBLs are a better speaker than the Technics, as those will have more similarities than differences. The JBLs will definitely have the better bass of the two.

I live in Finland. This is not a country where you could see too many audiophiles before the 90's so therefore not too much of high-end gear that predates that era. For example, my Pioneer CS-R700's are from an ex bank manager that had to order them back in the day.

That's exactly my problem right now - I would really like to try something different. I should re-articulate that I really like the JBL's for the price I had them. They have cost me $250 including complete restoration of foams and crossovers. They're my first big leap into higher end equipment and I didn't believe that for this price I could get anything this superior. They wash the floors with most of the sub $1000 speakers I've heard. They have problems though being a bit too much on the dark side and lacking something from the mid range although I can't really specify what.

Do you mean by a bit softer top end that they're less accurate than JBL's? Because I quite like the highs of my JBL's but I think they don't go too well together with the mids. For that reason a fluid midrange sounds promising.

 

[canuckaudiog]

I live in Finland. This is not a country where you could see too many audiophiles before the 90's so therefore not too much of high-end gear that predates that era. For example, my Pioneer CS-R700's are from an ex bank manager that had to order them back in the day.

That's exactly my problem right now - I would really like to try something different. I should re-articulate that I really like the JBL's for the price I had them. They have cost me $250 including complete restoration of foams and crossovers. They're my first big leap into higher end equipment and I didn't believe that for this price I could get anything this superior. They wash the floors with most of the sub $1000 speakers I've heard. They have problems though being a bit too much on the dark side and lacking something from the mid range although I can't really specify what.

Do you mean by a bit softer top end that they're less accurate than JBL's? Because I quite like the highs of my JBL's but I think they don't go too well together with the mids. For that reason a fluid midrange sounds promising.

The top end on the 103/3s is not what you would call bright, basically. I'm not sure about accuracy though.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Out of curiosity, what amp are you planning on using? I ask this because it can make a big difference. I've never heard the 103's, but if they are like the Kef's I have heard, they will perform best with a good bit of power. I find the type of amp should be asked more often when people provide advice about speaker pairing. There is synergy involved that is magic when it is right.

I have had a pair of technics sb-7000s, and I really liked them. They also like a bit of power, but a good 100 watt amp will work well with them. I used a technics sa-800 receiver and the pair was an excellent match.

That being said, the technics are gone, and my Kef's are still here.

 

[bublipax]

Out of curiosity, what amp are you planning on using? I ask this because it can make a big difference.

You are correct, it really matters a lot. My main amplifier right now is Pioneer A-656 which is only 70 wpc and that is one of the bottlenecks of my system right now and I am on the hunt for a power amp and a pre amp combo. There's a Sony TA-55ES nearby for cheap that I've requested an opportunity to test at my own place. However, my room is small and I listen to music mostly with volumes that I can have a discussion over without the need to shout. A-656 is also one of the best bang for the buck amplifiers in my opinion, although it tends to color the sound a lot if you don't disable the EQ. I also have other amplifiers and I like to use them all: Marantz 2215b (sounds bigger than it should), Pioneer SX-780, Pioneer SX-5560 and JVC VR-5535 LX.

To add something new to this topic I listened to music last night with my current system (Dual 1209 playing through A-656 to L-110's) while googling for reasons to email the seller and buy the KEF's and after a few hours of listening I noticed that I was actually listening to music and not the equipment and it sounded great. That was kind of a reminder to myself that it's not the equipment I'm really after but moments like that when you really listen to music the music. So after going through some of my favorite records Reo Speedwagon's You Can Tune a Piano, but You Can't Tuna Fish's B-side was about to come to it's end and I decided to call it a night and that in the morning I'm going to offer the seller 300 euros or $325 and if he agrees I'm happy with it. That's exactly what I did but he hasn't answered yet.

I can enjoy music with my current setup and I know I can find those KEF's somewhere in the future as well so there's nothing to get disappointed about if I don't get those this time. However, if he takes my offer I'll let you know how it goes!

BTW, while listening to my JBL's today they have sounded a lot more brighter than yesterday and now when I A/B test the right and left speaker I don't notice any difference in the high frequencies. Could it be that when I replaced the caps and have only listened to about 100 or so hours until then their values are still adjusting? Or have I just become deaf to the problem?

I really appreciate your opinions with this so far!

 

[bublipax]

The seller counter offered me with 350 euros or $375 and eventually I spoke it down to 320 euros or $350. I couldn't let them pass me for a mere 20 euros. I will get them next week but won't be able to start fixing 'em until after Christmas. Pretty excited now but I will first only replace the donuts and ferro fluids and see if I like 'em or not and then decide about the crossovers. I'm sure I'll get rid of them for 300 euros if it was a miss but I'm pretty sure I won't be disappointed. Will make a progress thread eventually!