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Technics SL 1200/KAB Discmaster Hi Fi

Fast_Eddie

Fast_Eddie

Upper-middle fi
Hi All,

Has anyone used or heard the KAB/Stanton Discmaster Hi Fi integrated cart for the SL 1200? I just found this on the internet today and it looks like just the ticket for my TT. It attaches directly to the tone arm of the SL 1200 so you don't need to do any alignment.

No, before you say it, it's not a DJ cart. Here's the link:

http://www.kabusa.com/index_pc.htm

This is a pretty interesting site for the SL 1200 owner who isn't intrested in "scratching" on his TT.

Take care,

Ed
 
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The Stanton Discmaster is the least expensive in the company's line of plug-in DJ cartridges. Unless you are a DJ, or have a propensity to be genuinely violent with the use of your turntable and tonearm, I'd avoid it like the plague. It's by no means a "hi-fi" or "audiophile" cartridge, and its sonic performance leaves much to be desired in that area. Others in the lineup are the Trackmaster and the Groovemaster, both of which are also DJ cartridges and to be avoided for the same reasons.
 
I was with Stanton when the Trackmaster, Groovemaster and the original (fat and clunky) Discmaster were introduced. The Groovemaster was deisgned as an "upscale" Trackmaster with more output, and a deliberately exagerrated bass end. Both it and the Trackmaster were designed from the much, much older Stanton-made "Epoch" Hi-Fi cartridge, which looked much like the Starship Enterprise. That cartridge has been resurrected by the company today under the Pickering name, and, for reasons I cannot fathom, is a bright, clear red plastic color. Just thought you folks would find this interesting...
 
emaidel: As a long-time 681EEE owner (now being used by my son, still have the output card, tool kit, wood box) -- I always find your posts on cartridges interesting and informative.
 
Fast_Eddie said:
Hi All,

Has anyone used or heard the KAB/Stanton Discmaster Hi Fi integrated cart for the SL 1200? I just found this on the internet today and it looks like just the ticket for my TT. It attaches directly to the tone arm of the SL 1200 so you don't need to do any alignment.

No, before you say it, it's not a DJ cart. Here's the link:

http://www.kabusa.com/index_pc.htm

This is a pretty interesting site for the SL 1200 owner who isn't intrested in "scratching" on his TT.

Take care,

Ed
Click to expand...

I like that kind of all in one needle they look cool i just wish they made some for home use with the elliptical stylus and around 1.5 VTF ...i wonder if they are right on in the protractors.
 
Looks like this is a custom modded version

emaidel said:
The Stanton Discmaster is the least expensive in the company's line of plug-in DJ cartridges. Unless you are a DJ, or have a propensity to be genuinely violent with the use of your turntable and tonearm, I'd avoid it like the plague. It's by no means a "hi-fi" or "audiophile" cartridge, and its sonic performance leaves much to be desired in that area. Others in the lineup are the Trackmaster and the Groovemaster, both of which are also DJ cartridges and to be avoided for the same reasons.
Click to expand...

This looks to be a custom mod: http://www.kabusa.com/tm2ae.htm#CTOP

Definitely not a stock Stanton DJ cart. Tracks at 1-1.5 grams, has an elliptical stylus and protruding cantilever. Might be interesting...

They also sell Ortofon's integrated carts, too.

TP
 
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Maidel, I have a couple of questions about this design, as I was thinking about the Epochs when they first came out.

- Are these new disco cartridges just the Epochs with different needles?
- Was the Epoch any good? The reason that I'm asking is that there was something about the photos of the plastic body design that didn't look right to me.

Sure enough, I had read an English review that panned the Epoch due to the ability of the plastic body to squirm. The reviewer preferred the sound of the lowly 500E Mk II (granted, the 500 with a high-tech stylus).

The Ortofon Concorde body has similar geometry to the Epoch, but the Ortofon is incredibly rigid. I don't think that the Epoch was. Is this correct?

Richard
 
Let me underscore what Maidel wrote about disco cartridges. In most cases, they're record killers. Stanton used to maintain one model in the line -- the 500 AL -- which must have been intended for Top 40 AM stations. The thing tracked like a brick and only went out to 12,000 Hz.

It stood up to DJs who slammed the equipment around, dumped cigarette ashes on the records, back-cued, slip-cued, and did other nasty things to the records and equipment. Also, Top 40 stations received multiple copies of their 45s -- when you wrecked one, you just hurled it into the trash and took out a duplicate. The D5000AL is the only stylus that I do not own for this body.

In general, I'd say, if you like your records, don't use a disco cartridge. However, having said that, I confess that I like the Stanton 680L for some older records.

Richard
 
In an attempt to answer the last two postings, the Groovemaster in question here is indeed a "custom" job, but one that looks a bit bizarre as the plastic stylus handle has been completely removed, and the cantilever is actually dangerously exposed. Also the "D-78" nomenclature on it is odd, as that would indicate it was a stylus for 78's. Finding a "nude" Stereohedron stylus today is like finding a solution to the war in Iraq, so, quite honestly, I have no idea where this stylus came from.

Insofar as the difference between the Epoch models and the Trackmaster, Groovemaster, etc., the cartridge body was indeed that of the Epoch with stiffer stylus assemblies, and a plug in housing designed to compete against the Ortofon Concorde models that DJ's loved the appearance of. The Epoch was an attempt to sell a high-end cartridge to independent audio dealers who wouldn't carry normal Stanton products due to the large distribution pattern of those Stanton models. Was it any better than a "regular" Stanton? Frankly, I doubt it, and it was a marketing disaster.

For whatever it's worth, whenever I made an A/B comparison between the Ortofon DJ Concorde (the blue plug-in model) as compared to the Stanton Groovemaster, the Stanton always sounded better: louder, less brittle and lots and lots of bass. Fine for DJ use, but nothing else. Putting a "custom" stylus on it seems a waste of time, in my opinion.
 
I just took a look at the KAB listing. I'm familiar with the D78E stylus from the 80s. In fact, I think that I've still got three of them. It's a beautiful-sounding needle for the final "conventional" samarium-cobalt series bodies. But, whoops! My D78E needles look completely different than what I see in KAB's photo. And it appears that they don't interchange. What the...?

I've been pretty puzzled by Stanton's product designations since they moved to Florida -- there seem to have issued conflicting data about certain needles. And here I am again.

Mr. Maidel, do you have any light to shed on this?

Thanks.

Richard Steinfeld
 
Just a refresher:
The "real" D78E stylus was introduced with the 785LZE cartridge. In other words, this is a high-performance audiophile stylus. Mine are for one of the "budget" versions of the low-impedance 981 LZS pickup (and undoubtedly work perfectly for the regular 981 HZS, too). In that period, Stanton would introduce a flurry of almost-identical models, and then quickly drop all except one. I don't understand what the marketing logic was for all these versions. This was one of the models that came and went quickly. But the replacement needles seemed to have lingered a bit longer.

Now, what this new D78E thing is, well, duh????

Richard
 
Both Pickering and Stanton kept replacement styli on their price sheets for many years after the products were discontinued, and kept a fairly substantial (and ridiculous) inventory of these styli, even though it was highly unlikely they'd ever sell all that were manufactured. The "HZ" and others in that era were actually not especially good cartridges designed to compete with moving coil models, but rather than using the moving coil principle (which Walter Stanton hated, and flatly refused to ever build) they were instead "low impedance" or "high impedance" models. Either way, they were excessively bright, and didn't sound anywhere near as good as a "normal" 881-S.

Since the company was bought and moved to Florida, they wisely chose to almost exclusively build DJ models, since the market for "regular" cartridges is so small. It's fairly easy to tell what they all derive from, just by looking at the cartridge body. The 680 and 980 bodies, aside from cosmetics, are identical, and all 500, 520 etc. cartridges also use the same body. All Trackmaster, Groovemaster and Discmaster plug-ins are derived from Epoch models, but there are differences in the bodies, so the styli aren't interchangeable. And that "custom" Discmaster stems from a newer Trackmaster body, so to further add to the confusion.
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the replies! I was interested in the "integrated" cart just because I wouldn't have to worry about getting it set up correctly. But, I guess I should just learn how to do it. There are several good carts out there for around $100. I just sold some gear and have just about that ammount burning a hole in my pocket!

One other question- KAB has that remote power supply. They talk about how it's better than the stock supply, but also talk about benefits of having it removed from the main chassis. I looked at it, and relocating the stock power supply wouldn't be much of a trick in my oppinion. It would look cool too! Make a nice wooden box for it- you know- audiophile stuff! So, would that be worth looking into?

Thanks,

Ed
 
needlestein said:
11 years late to the party on this one, but these "HZ" and "LZ" models are not excessively bright and how they can be described as "not especially good" is beyond me. Yes, the "normal" 881-S sounds excellent--I've got three of them. Essentially, the 881 would be classed as an "HZ," given the similarities to the 981, and so also not an "expecially good" cartridge. To claim that a 981-HZS does not sound anywhere near as good as a "normal" 881-S (particularly without ferreting out the Florida 881-S models that are actually .3 x .7 "special polish" ellipticals that falsely retain the "S" and "Stereohedron" nomenclature when they should be called "881E" or probably more accurately "880E" as they late Florida ones were probably also not calibrated) is just not accurate.

The "LZ" cartridges are excellent. The XLZ-7500S and TLZ-7500S that I have with original styli compete well with my best HOMC carts and bring more to the table.
Click to expand...
Amen!
 
needlestein said:
11 years late to the party on this one, but these "HZ" and "LZ" models are not excessively bright and how they can be described as "not especially good" is beyond me. Yes, the "normal" 881-S sounds excellent--I've got three of them. Essentially, the 881 would be classed as an "HZ," given the similarities to the 981, and so also not an "expecially good" cartridge. To claim that a 981-HZS does not sound anywhere near as good as a "normal" 881-S (particularly without ferreting out the Florida 881-S models that are actually .3 x .7 "special polish" ellipticals that falsely retain the "S" and "Stereohedron" nomenclature when they should be called "881E" or probably more accurately "880E" as they late Florida ones were probably also not calibrated) is just not accurate.

The "LZ" cartridges are excellent. The XLZ-7500S and TLZ-7500S that I have with original styli compete well with my best HOMC carts and bring more to the table.
Click to expand...

Not to hijack thread, What is the next step up from the xv15-Jico Shibada, If there is one. The two mentioned in the last paragraph ? I would prefer HOMC, Thanks
 
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