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That much difference in Sony PS-X75 & Technics SL-1200

gary7

gary7

AK Subscriber
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I have a Sony PS-X75 table and recently been running a Pickering XV-15/D1200 cart that I really like. Just picked up a Technics SL-1200 MK II, my first 1200. Other than some paint rubbed off the top plinth, mechanically and electronically it seems fine. I installed the Pickering, set it up and gave it a listen. I can say that the Pickering in the Sony sounded much better, more refined and airy. Both are considering top notch tables. I assume it has to do with the arms. Am I wrong?
 
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The Sony was slightly more (about 50% more – AU$649 versus $419 1979) top-notch than the Technics!:D

The main difference in performance is probably the superb Biotracer tonearm on the Sony. Because it damps low-frequency resonance almost out of existence with no friction, it will suit virtually every cartridge ever made, as long as it balances the tonearm (say tracking forces of 0.5 - 5g). By contrast, the Technics tonearm (and most other un-damped tonearms) will match a relatively limited range of compliances best (maybe tracking forces of ~1.75 – 2.25g), due to a much higher and narrower resonant peak. The Biotracer also reduces IM distortion markedly, which probably sounds better.
 
gary7 said:
I have a Sony PS-X75 table and recently been running a Pickering XV-15/D1200 cart that I really like. Just picked up a Technics SL-1200 MK II, my first 1200. Other than some paint rubbed off the top plinth, mechanically and electronically it seems fine. I installed the Pickering, set it up and gave it a listen. I can say that the Pickering in the Sony sounded much better, more refined and airy. Both are considering top notch tables. I assume it has to do with the arms. Am I wrong?
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Actually, not everyone considers the 1200 a top notch turntable.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
The market is moving upwards, but the high-end Sony DDs (except for the unobtanium PS-X9) are still selling for a bargain relative to their performance, IMHO. On the other hand, and also just IMHO, the SL-1200 is probably selling at a premium compared to it's performance, just due to the name recognition and popularity. Rather like the price difference between a Realistic LAB-400 and a Marantz 6300. Both very similar CEC-produced tables, but the Marantz draws a huge premium because it says "Marantz" on the front.
 
The problem with the high end Sony's is reliability. Not only were they expensive when new, not many sold compared to other brands, they also failed early in their lives and most I would venture, are well and truly in landfill by now.

I've owned and repaired proportionally more Sony biotracers and mid 70s Sony DDs than I care to remember.

That said, a working high end example can be scored for considerably less than other TOTL brand decks and if fully functional, the TOTL bio arm is a magnificent piece of gear. The motors Sony used, particularly their bearing sleeve quality, drive electronics and the commutated head feedback system was nowhere near as reliable or durable as Denon's system, and not in the same league as some optical loop speed sensing systems used by other manufacturers.

I love Sony, my favourite gear is Sony, but they have always fallen into the 'brilliant but brittle' category, for everything they invent or produce on the 'bleeding edge'. Realistically, there is nothing that compares to an SL-1200 in the reliability stakes.

I think the 1200s are getting what they are worth. After all, there is NO spare part you can't get for it, mostly now on the secondary market. The TOTL Sonys are few, far between and likely to be a bit touchy in one way or another. That affects price.

The Marantz 6300 and the realisitc LAB-400 couldn't be more different if you ask me. The LAB-400 is cheaply made, contains no common parts with the 6300 and isn't really in he same league. The 6300 is no stellar TT either, but I'd pay three times more for the Marantz.

Sam Cogley said:
The market is moving upwards, but the high-end Sony DDs (except for the unobtanium PS-X9) are still selling for a bargain relative to their performance, IMHO. On the other hand, and also just IMHO, the SL-1200 is probably selling at a premium compared to it's performance, just due to the name recognition and popularity. Rather like the price difference between a Realistic LAB-400 and a Marantz 6300. Both very similar CEC-produced tables, but the Marantz draws a huge premium because it says "Marantz" on the front.
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restorer-john said:
The problem with the high end Sony's is reliability. Not only were they expensive when new, not many sold compared to other brands, they also failed early in their lives and most I would venture, are well and truly in landfill by now.

I've owned and repaired proportionally more Sony biotracers and mid 70s Sony DDs than I care to remember.

That said, a working high end example can be scored for considerably less than other TOTL brand decks and if fully functional, the TOTL bio arm is a magnificent piece of gear. The motors Sony used, particularly their bearing sleeve quality, drive electronics and the commutated head feedback system was nowhere near as reliable or durable as Denon's system, and not in the same league as some optical loop speed sensing systems used by other manufacturers.

I love Sony, my favourite gear is Sony, but they have always fallen into the 'brilliant but brittle' category, for everything they invent or produce on the 'bleeding edge'. Realistically, there is nothing that compares to an SL-1200 in the reliability stakes.

I think the 1200s are getting what they are worth. After all, there is NO spare part you can't get for it, mostly now on the secondary market. The TOTL Sonys are few, far between and likely to be a bit touchy in one way or another. That affects price.

The Marantz 6300 and the realisitc LAB-400 couldn't be more different if you ask me. The LAB-400 is cheaply made, contains no common parts with the 6300 and isn't really in he same league. The 6300 is no stellar TT either, but I'd pay three times more for the Marantz.
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That being a key point. I've been told I need to get the X75 re-capped to ensure continued reliability. Not knowing it's history (picked it up at a pawn shop) if it has previous service. Although the X75 plays fine now and sounds awesome, I'm almost afraid to play it until I get it capped. The 1200, on the other hand, has the rep that it will run forever with minimal care. I've been looking at upgrades from KAB (the fluid damper) and others. I paid about the same for both, I just need to decide which way I want to go.
 
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There have been several threads recently suggesting that the turntable and arm are not as critical as other components in the audio chain (such as cartridge and preamp).

I think this is an good example of what a better arm can do for you (all other variables the same).

Would love to hear your impressions of the KAB fluid damper for the Technics arm to see if it closes the gap.
 
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I'd like to try a KAB silicone damping bath on one of my 1200s just for fun sometime.

I could do an AB, damped vs non damped.

bobins08- what did you do to your TD160? I've got a 160 and 145 both with TP16 arms. I sold my SME3009s...
 
i almost sprung for a sony x-75 but all the issues about unobtainable parts made me hesitate enough for me to get a sony ps-x50. lesser electronics to go wrong and i already have a donor if i need parts. i already had a taste of what to expect when things go wrong with my denon dp-52f whose tonearm was controlled by a chip that denon is no longer producing. thanks to jim249, there might be some hope of fixing the table. i bought a for parts denon dp-7f to see whether the chip it uses can be transplanted to the 52.
i have to say the ps- x75 wins hands down in aesthetics. even now the table look modern. i got the technics sl 1200 out of my mind early on in my search due to the possibility of it being used a s a dj cart in it previous life. i understand that the technics has an outstanding motor but i don't want to have to deal with any hassle if it was used as such. they already start at a pretty nice price. if i have to tack on the repair bill should it break down from overuse and misuse, it would be untenable for me.
 
I have a Technics M5G and a VPI Classic - I love them both- the Technics has some very nice mods - and performs on par with the Classic - The Technics is a better platform for my Grado Ref Master as there is no hum - total black background - Classic produces a very slight hum - not too bad - it is just that the Technics is better in that regard for this particular cart.

If your 1200 is not on par with that old Sony - then at least get the upgraded components that the newer 1200 Mk5s had - such as the better tonearm wiring and interconnects - oil your bearing - and the low cost damper is an easy win.

The others on this thread that always bash the Technics - are just plain wrong - it has huge potential.

Good luck.
 
That said, the Sonys have a reputation of being much more difficult to repair and more complex. Which keeps them reasonably priced. The Technics is simpler and more robust in high hours use and performs well for what it was designed to do.
 
I have an SL1200 that has been fully modded by KAB and it easily outperforms my VPI HW-19 MK3 with SME Series III. Just sounds better, works better, and is built better.
 
Frank Sol said:
That and a tonearm rewire appear to be the top two changes most 1200 owners recommend (I am an owner)
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The rewire will improve the sound. You can buy the same wiring that comes on $1-$2k arms for $100-$200 but it is a tricky job and the $1-2k arms will still have advantages in other area's.

The kab fluid damper will help with warped records and absorbing vibrations and skipping, not really an s.q. improvement.

An aftermarket metal platter mat, either oyaide or sds will yield nice results as well and is really easy to install, but probably require a thinner aftermarket non metal mat as well.
 
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