The Elephant in the Room...

[JimmyEJames]

For all negative people just want to argue to argue no one say it has to be room or have to miss start of track it can be anteroom or closet and is good practice same as recording studio
You could deaden it just use an empty closet if you have one for me that is challenge! ; - )
Starting already to feel like going in direction of levitating turntable thread ; - (
And all just opinion any way! ; - (
JJ

 

[jblnut]

The only time I have ever personally seen this was many years ago when I was a kid. A neighbor's dad had turned a closet in an unused bedroom into the location for the equipment. He had installed a glass patio slider instead of closet doors (to still be able to see the gear of course) and it was indeed pretty quiet when you went in there and closed the slider. His thinking was the same as mine in this thread - he wanted the turntable in a quieter space than the listening area. Sure sounded good to me but what did I know at age 12...

jblnut

 

[JimmyEJames]

The only time I have ever personally seen this was many years ago when I was a kid. A neighbor's dad had turned a closet in an unused bedroom into the location for the equipment. He had installed a glass patio slider instead of closet doors (to still be able to see the gear of course) and it was indeed pretty quiet when you went in there and closed the slider. His thinking was the same as mine in this thread - he wanted the turntable in a quieter space than the listening area. Sure sounded good to me but what did I know at age 12...

jblnut

It is good idea if you can pull off! ; - )
JJ

 

[pfcs49]

I was thinking I couldn't personally do the feedback experiment recording phono vibrations from record-out while playing/stimulating the system from another source because I no longer have a recorder, but I do! My little hand-held Tascam DR-07mkII.
I'll have to haul my paralyzed ass downstairs soon and play with this!

EDIT: Just realized that for this to have any integrity, a prerequisite would be to do the test first with the stylus not on the disc to check how much crosstalk there might be between the audible source circuit and the tape-monitored phono circuit.
And if there was, we could put a load resistor across the phono input to totally rule out any contribution from the cartridge, even when it's not on the disc!

 

[maxhifi]

There's a youtube video where someone attempts to use a phono cartridge as a microphone, by resting the needle on a Styrofoam cup or some such, and shouting into it, and the result is basically that it's a terrible and inefficient microphone, but still does produce audible sound.

Any sound it gets is going to come though the record, maybe this is an argument towards energy absorbent turntable mats and record clamps, to remove any possible vibration of the record itself?

 

[pfcs49]

I think because most people of typical income barely have space for things already have and only dream to have dedicated room or closet for tuntable
And even if do it never fails it will not be in right location to do any practical good
I know if I had I would use as you suggest! ; -)
I did do an install when I was teen aged for family living in large colonial home and they actually had a closet to dedicate to turntable it sounded fantastic
I ran the speaker wires under the floors and hid amplifier in built in bookcase small holes in hardwood floors it was a formal home
JJ

The genesis of this conversation was a question about how could one QUANTIFY the improvement (or failure) of any type of (turntable) isolation strategies.
This would be along the lines of discovering just how effective and/or necessary various strategies might be. My intent is not to reinvent the wheel but to make us able to verify/measure results; to "objectify" the conversation if possible?

Both my turntables seem to have no problem with acoustic feedback, even at ear splitting levels with much bass, but that wasn't my experience early on. At one time I had a Micro Seiki deck that was beyond awful. It was in a masonry alcove twenty feet from IMF ALS 40s, and even at moderate levels developed horrible feedback, no matter what I did to isolate it!
It will be interesting to see what results from this conversation!

 

[kirk57]

Lemme get this straight: you've decided it's time we tackle the idea of using some system to isolate the turntable from the room's sound?

You're at least 60 years behind the curve on this one...

Anyway, in my room, a wall-mount turntable shelf and a DIY sandbox have been very effective. Since getting the shelf (a Target TT-1) in 1986, I've pretty much considered TT isolation a solved problem. I play music pretty loud and dance around in the living room, with no ill effects. Good enough for me.

That said, isolation from footfalls does not necessarily mean 100% isolation from airborne vibration. I don't detect a loss in sound quality vs. volume, so while it may be there, it's not of great magnitude.

 

[pfcs49]

"The genesis of this conversation was a question about how could one QUANTIFY the improvement (or failure) of any type of (turntable) isolation strategies."

Do you comprehend high school English?

EDIT: thanks for your edit!

 

[JimmyEJames]

"The genesis of this conversation was a question about how could one QUANTIFY the improvement (or failure) of any type of (turntable) isolation strategies."

Do you comprehend high school English?

EDIT: thanks for your edit!

I comprehend hijack thread crap and know it all
Why do you define jblnut thread and only offer lectures and insults?
JJ

 

[pfcs49]

This thread was from thread-crapping jbnut and I were doing on page 3 here: Possible tonearm upgrade for your GT-2000 TT (SAEC WE-407/GT)
and jbnut suggested starting a new thread which he did. The root issue was how much degradation might be occurring from acoustical feedback through the cartridge while the turntable is exposed to the sound it is reproducing.

And when I impolitely took a shot at kirk, what he had posted right after my post, consisted of this:

"Lemme get this straight: you've decided it's time we tackle the idea of using some system to isolate the turntable from the room's sound?
You're at least 60 years behind the curve on this one..."

Which implied he hadn't read the previous post.

AFAIK, the question here is to not discuss various strategies, which have been discussed ad nauseum, but to try to identify (which implies measurement) how much effect there really is when the system doesn't go into obvious feedback mode.

If you haven't, i suggest reading the GT2000 tonearm thread. And I'm sorry you feel I lecture; you may be right!

 

[JimmyEJames]

This thread was from thread-crapping jbnut and I were doing on page 3 here: Possible tonearm upgrade for your GT-2000 TT (SAEC WE-407/GT)
and jbnut suggested starting a new thread which he did. The root issue was how much degradation might be occurring from acoustical feedback through the cartridge while the turntable is exposed to the sound it is reproducing.

And when I impolitely took a shot at kirk, what he had posted right after my post, consisted of this:

"Lemme get this straight: you've decided it's time we tackle the idea of using some system to isolate the turntable from the room's sound?
You're at least 60 years behind the curve on this one..."

Which implied he hadn't read the previous post.

AFAIK, the question here is to not discuss various strategies, which have been discussed ad nauseum, but to try to identify (which implies measurement) how much effect there really is when the system doesn't go into obvious feedback mode.

If you haven't, i suggest reading the GT2000 tonearm thread. And I'm sorry you feel I lecture; you may be right!

Sorry if I over react just seems like this a lot in turntable
My apology for jumping to conclusion regard to motive
JJ

 

[pfcs49]

Thanks for the amends, Jimmy. A lot of people can't be so gentle.

 

[kirk57]

My post #27 was in response to the OP, and quotes from post #1.

Anyway, my point is that lots of very smart people have studied this area for decades. This particular elephant was recognized long, long ago.

 

[bshorey]

The genesis of this conversation was a question about how could one QUANTIFY the improvement (or failure) of any type of (turntable) isolation strategies.

<snip>

Perhaps, but it also contained this question:

"So why then do 99% of us have the turntable in the room with the speakers ?"

Which is what I responded to.

bs

 

[hughman61]

<snip>

Perhaps, but it also contained this question:

"So why then do 99% of us have the turntable in the room with the speakers ?"

Which is what I responded to.


bs

And was answered by some. Limited room/space and in my case limited space and ease of use.

Anyway I agree with @kirk57 that this has been tackled before.

In my case for the time being it has been solved until I change something and then it's back to the drawing board. I read lots of archived posts on this topic and chose for me the least expensive solutions. There will always be people who want to scientifically prove or disprove a hypothesis and I applaud them and will most likely gleen something from their endeavors. I took a less scientific approach and implemented simple additive solutions and quantified those changes by my imperical ear.

 

[sqlsavior]

I went to great lengths to isolate mine. I put it on a wall shelf in the next room, where the shared wall is protected by closets in the main room. The funny thing is, at the volumes I listen at, it is totally superfluous, I believe. But I am prepared should I ever own corner-horns again.

 

[hughman61]

I went to great lengths to isolate mine. I put it on a wall shelf in the next room, where the shared wall is protected by closets in the main room. The funny thing is, at the volumes I listen at, it is totally superfluous, I believe. But I am prepared should I ever own corner-horns again.

Right. I rarely listen to my music really loud, especially when I have company. But there are those times when you just need to rock out!

And I really like the way my TT suspension table looks.

 

[hughman61]

[QUOTE Bouncy wooden floors pretty much means no walking if the Hi Fi is on.[/QUOTE]
My 80's TT & MM cart mounted on a suspended wall mounted platform above a raised foundation wooden floor doesn't seem to suffer from foot falls.

Building costs were the reason for slab on grade construction techniques. Any advantages for HI Fi were a happy coincidence.

 

[grillebilly]

I've never had any problems due to having concrete floors and a TT stand made of 1/4 steel shelves weighing well over 300 pounds. All of the shelves are "loaded" against each other using jacks and isolated from each other with hockey pucks. But if you have a problem you do whatever it takes to fix it.

 

[JimmyEJames]

I've never had any problems due to having concrete floors and a TT stand made of 1/4 steel shelves weighing well over 300 pounds. All of the shelves are "loaded" against each other using jacks and isolated from each other with hockey pucks. But if you have a problem you do whatever it takes to fix it.

Where you live have turntable penitentiary weight room?
JJ