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The JE Labs/ Angela SE 2A3 amp done my way

You're grounding concerns will be about the small voltages that can develop on a grounding system because of the currents running through the ground cables combined with fact that the cables have resistance.

One stage of an amp can therefore have a part of its signal impressed on another stage of the amp by way of the ground not being all at the same voltage at the same time, and as an amp will normally amplify the difference between ground and the signal, this will cause problems. Another way this can happen is where noise is picked up on the ground cables and two stages therefore are sitting at different levels.

A logical and effective way to fix this is to bring all ground connections back to the same point as this 'point' will have one certain voltage on it and therefore all stages of the amp will be at the same ground potential. The next stage in cleaning the ground is to make sure your B+ and ground are properly positioned with respect to each other. Thus...

If you look at the last filter cap in a conventional power supply, (and assume it is the ideal low impedance source), you expect a clean source of voltage from it. From there, your ground point and B+ point can be star connected out to everything that needs it (yes, the B+ too).

However, before the filter cap you expect to have charging pulses at twice the line frequency as the cap is kept full from the rectifier side. If you were to connect your ground star point somewhere back there and since there is resistance on that ground wire, you'll get a voltage from those currents on your ground system with respect to the B+ (but not the stages with respect to each other if you're star connected, but the noise will still get through via the supply rails and the fact that the stages have only a certain amount of 'power supply rejection ratio'.)

Same on the other hand. If you connect your ground star point to the last filter cap via a length of wire, the wire will develop a voltage based on currents from all the amp and your ground will therefore not be steady with respect to your B+.

Your individual ground wires from each stage to the star point at the cap can have length. They'll only behave, for example, like very small extra cathode resistors causing no grounding problems, but the longer wires may be more open to interference that will affect only that stage. Inside the grounded chassis though, and properly routed, you should be OK.

If you have multiple ground connections on a single triode (grid resistor and cathode resistor etc.), theoretically you should ground them with individual connections to the star, but in practice this is not necessary. The connections are electrically so closely related that ground interference is hardly a concern, let alone a problem. Also, the connections are so physically close together that a really short and not too thin cable (between them all connecting them to the star return wire) can be used.

BTW, nice work on the chassis.
 
lndm said:
BTW, nice work on the chassis.
I understood the last sentence! Thanks!

I'm reading and re-reading the rest to sort out the good from the bad. Maybe it will sink in. In the meantime, can you tell me if my initial plan to ground the PS to one point and everything else to another is a good one or not? :stupid: :withstpd: Should I star everything to the aforementioned bolt?
 
OK :o Here's what I think is most important.

Each amplifier stage should have a ground spur and a B+ connection coming right back to your final filter capacitor. (Sorry, is there a schematic here? ie, I'm wondering whether there are multiple final filter caps)

I don't feel that star grounding on the rectifier side of the final filter cap is necessary, but it shouldn't do any harm. FWIW, I like to use heavy cable here as if nothing else it can help to reduce radiated hum.

If you connect each stage (the signal, that is), via shielded cable, don't connect the signal ground via the shield. Run only the signal wire and connect the shield to the output of the previous stage only. The signal ground is already referenced via the star point at the filter cap.
 
hey-Hey!!!,
I like to run a heavy piece of copper wire( 12-14 ga )from the last filter cap to the ground side of the input RCA jack. This way, what ever needs a ground gets attached to the bus. Your layout looks like it will work OK with that method.
cheers,
Douglas
 
PakProtector said:
hey-Hey!!!,
I like to run a heavy piece of copper wire( 12-14 ga )from the last filter cap to the ground side of the input RCA jack. This way, what ever needs a ground gets attached to the bus. Your layout looks like it will work OK with that method.
cheers,
Douglas

That's what I did.
 
That is a truly beautiful job. I would use round metal knobs, personally. The ivory (or elephant-friendly lookalike) would look out of place on the amp, which is all matte metal and glass. Chicken head knobs would too. I think round shiny metal, gold color or just silver, with little shaping. This amp has nothing sticking out, and nothing extra.
Think this:
knob_ar.jpg
 
Nice. A simple schematic (I like that), yet one that will probably sound fantastic but still leaves room for component upgrades and experimenting.

Your largest amp currents wiil be from the 100uF cap to the output transformers. For this reason you could put that cap close to these transformers and star to them from it. You could then star from the 100uF cap negative terminal out to the other stages and also out to the 40uF cap.
 
How's this?

Hey guys, what do you think of this copper bus run? It's almost shaped like a star... :D

It's grounded to the power tranny bolt on the lower left corner. Otherwise it just floats. I'll cut the far end down to size once I determine that I don't need it.

IMG_6747.jpg
 
Just curious... how much did this project cost overall? Obviously the big cap and the transformers are going to be costly. Tubes can be cheap or very expensive depending on how nice you want them to be, I guess. What is the cost for all the stuff without the tubes? I am considering a project of some sort, but I am thinking tubes are not the way to go unless I can reuse old parts I can get for cheap/free. Which means rusted transformers, I think.
 
I think the total cost of this project will come in just under $700, which scares me a little... I opted for a lot of upgrades along the way, though. There are less expensive options for just about every single component in here, and also more expensive ones. Significant savings would be realized by using different output transformers, resistors, and (of all things) connectors - the stainless screws added up to more than I ever thought they could! Having the chassis sandblasted and painted in a shop also bumped up the cost.

I suppose I could have done it for $500 if I had really gone bare bones, but I thought if I was going to put that much into it, I should go all out and do it "right". I hope it sounds decent...

A disclaimer... many things were sold to fund this project. There's no way I could shell out seven big ones on a whim!
 
Does anyone want to weigh in on the copper bus ground scheme (post 29)? If not, I'm going to run with it.

How should I secure the PS caps? I've moved them from under the choke to directly under the power transformer - lower left in my pictures. I thought about glueing them in place, but I imagine it could get a little warm under there. I do have some of Paul C's favorite - E6000, I think it's called - but I don't know how it likes the heat. Can I tie them in place with something?
 
Redboy said:
How should I secure the PS caps? I've moved them from under the choke to directly under the power transformer - lower left in my pictures. I thought about glueing them in place, but I imagine it could get a little warm under there. I do have some of Paul C's favorite - E6000, I think it's called - but I don't know how it likes the heat. Can I tie them in place with something?

I think parts express sells zip-ties with mounting tabs allowing you to screw them down to the chassis . . . they should be tough enough.
 
No don’t do a loop like that. Do a run up the middle to were you have the top point. Connect the bottom to one of the tie points at the rectifier. Don’t worry about the chassis connection just yet.

Now connect all of the cap - leads to this point, or to the buss near it . This is the point of most current in the ground buss. Moving up you need to connect the big cathode resistors to the center bus. Run short 18 Gage or so leads to the buss, to the same point would be best. This is the second highest current point. See were I am going with this?
Next up is the low level stuff. Connect it all to the top between the two original top points.
This way the high current from the right side of your diamond does not have to pass through the low level circuit on it’s way home.

As to the chassis connection, start with none at all. DO connect the AC safety ground (green) to the chassis, how about were you started the diamond. Once the amp is up and running. You can use a clip lead to the ground buss to find the quietest combination. If a ring terminal and a short lead from the safety ground is as, or quieter then do it. but you leave your options open.

The point is to build a sound grounding system that is easy to modify if the need arises

That said your layout is beautiful and I expect you will have no ground problems but hum can bite you in the ass, so it’s best to be prepared…John
 
On another note.
You have a lot of terminal strips. Strive to make as few junctions as practical. You can probably lose the two on the middle/sides. The two green wires at the TS at the rectifier. They can go directly to the filament pins and so on

From what I see from your last post get all of the filaments run. Then do the B+…John
 
John, that all makes sense to me - I'm taking this to heart! The diamond goes away, some terminal strips disappear, and I take another stab at it. Man, this is fun!
 
Here's what's happened since I last posted.

I reconfigured the ground bus, soldered a bunch of parts together...

Under:

IMG_6766.jpg


IMG_6767.jpg


IMG_6772.jpg
 
This evening I cobbled together a poor man's variac, and plugged my creation in.

And whaddayaknow... it works!

:banana: :yes: :banana: :yes: :banana: :yes: :banana:

IMG_6774.jpg


IMG_6775.jpg


IMG_6776.jpg
 
I want to put a base on this that will do it justice. My woodworking skills are virtually nonexistant, so I'm hoping to recruit some local talent.

Haven't had a chance to listen to it much, and for the moment I've got it hooked up to some sacrificial speakers. I can dial away the hum completely on those. Maybe tomorrow I'll have a chance to bring it into the main system and plug in the Forte's. That should be the real test of character!

I can't tell you how thrilled I am that this thing is working, and working the first time!
 
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