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The more time goes by, the more I prefer separates over receivers

z-adamson said:
What are these very good and affordable receivers of today?

My perception has always been that quality began to tank in the early to mid 80s and never really recovered to the quality offered during the 70s....
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There are different ways how "quality" is perceived ie, thick polished faceplates and milled aluminum knobs but these outward features don't contribute a thing towards audio quality. Of course many would perceive this to bear evidence of the quality of the guts and in some cases the connection may be right but not invariably.

The simple fact of the matter is that technological progress has resulted in performance far surpassing the finest separates made half a century ago at a fraction of the price. Older equipment may have been heavier, more robustly constructed and especially easier to service but this doesn't automatically translate to performance from a technical standpoint.
 
62caddy said:
There are different ways how "quality" is perceived ie, thick polished faceplates and milled aluminum knobs but these outward features don't contribute a thing towards audio quality. Of course many would perceive this to bear evidence of the quality of the guts and in some cases the connection may be right but not invariably.

The simple fact of the matter is that technological progress has resulted in performance far surpassing the finest separates made half a century ago at a fraction of the price. Older equipment may have been heavier, more robustly constructed and especially easier to service but this doesn't automatically translate to performance from a technical standpoint.
Click to expand...
Technical schmechnical, it's about the sound.
fd2aa93d76dcfeabaabf88eb455aceeb (2).jpg
 
62caddy said:
There are different ways how "quality" is perceived ie, thick polished faceplates and milled aluminum knobs but these outward features don't contribute a thing towards audio quality. Of course many would perceive this to bear evidence of the quality of the guts and in some cases the connection may be right but not invariably.
Click to expand...
I go straight for nudes of the internals to see the quality of what lies beneath. :)

There's no danger in folks accusing me of choosing my components based upon cosmetic features. Almost twenty years ago, I was visiting a friend who was currently evaluating two $30k amps for review. I had never heard of either brand. The first was drop dead gorgeous. All the casework was carefully milled aluminum with the name etched in the panels. Even the heatsinks were stylized. It radiated a red glow. Used counter sunk machine screws throughout. The speaker cable connectors were enormous and offered a pair for each mono amplifier.

edge.jpg
edgerear.jpg


The second amp was a different matter. While it had anodized aluminum front panels, the chassis was made of sheet metal. Sheet metal screws. It was Rosie O'Donnell to Heidi Klum. You see a glimpse of it behind the Edge signatures. It was the VTL Wotan:

wotan.jpg
wotan_rear.jpg


One sounded more organic and palpable like live unamplified music. The walls in Harry's room disappeared. I ended up purchasing a lesser model of one myself and have been enjoying them ever since. Wanna guess which one I chose?

edit: The Wotan's successor is a different matter. :)
 
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E-Stat said:
I go straight for nudes of the internals to see the quality of what lies beneath. :)

There's no danger in folks accusing me of choosing my components based upon cosmetic features. Almost twenty years ago, I was visiting a friend who was currently evaluating two $30k amps for review. I had never heard of either brand. The first was drop dead gorgeous. All the casework was carefully milled aluminum with the name etched in the panels. Even the heatsinks were stylized. It radiated a red glow. Used counter sunk machine screws throughout. The speaker cable connectors were enormous and offered a pair for each mono amplifier.

edge.jpg
edgerear.jpg


The second amp was a different matter. While it had anodized aluminum front panels, the chassis was made of sheet metal. Sheet metal screws. It was Rosie O'Donnell to Heidi Klum. You see a glimpse of it behind the Edge signatures. It was the VTL Wotan:

wotan.jpg
wotan_rear.jpg


One sounded more organic and palpable like live unamplified music. I ended up purchasing a lesser model of one myself and have been enjoying them ever since. Wanna guess which one I chose?
Click to expand...

Nudes eh lol. A few items thrown in for size perspective.

20160817_235316.jpg
20160817_2356142.jpg

And it's still about the sound.

By the way, which ever way you went there was no downside lol.
 
I had receivers as a kid because that is all I was exposed to. Big box stores mostly carried a limited range. Then, when ebay came around, I wanted to re-live my youth and bought receivers.

Similar to the OP, I have a 1250 that is never used. I am now using either a Kenwood model 600 or the 500. To my ears, they both far surpass the 1250.
 
I never got into receivers. And I grew up next to an AFB. All those airmen with big Sony, Pioneer and Sansui receivers and I still preferred separates.
I recently gave away two receivers. I have another that I was given on the bench for a good looking over. But I wont use it. I never go looking for them, but they tend to find me, just like cassette decks seem to do. :D
 
If you are feeling like you are neglecting the receivers, and have settled on separates, it's time to cash in. The receivers will find a loving home and with the proceeds you can buy something you may of never considered before because of cost.
 
I've owned one receiver in my life. It was a refurbished SX-750, and I was underwhelmed to say the least. I gave it to my grandson in a starter system a while back. Separates for me all the way!
 
62caddy said:
There are different ways how "quality" is perceived ie, thick polished faceplates and milled aluminum knobs but these outward features don't contribute a thing towards audio quality. Of course many would perceive this to bear evidence of the quality of the guts and in some cases the connection may be right but not invariably.

The simple fact of the matter is that technological progress has resulted in performance far surpassing the finest separates made half a century ago at a fraction of the price. Older equipment may have been heavier, more robustly constructed and especially easier to service but this doesn't automatically translate to performance from a technical standpoint.
Click to expand...

But I was saying....what are these current production receivers that are as good or better, technically speaking (looks aside), than the vintage classics? Such as SX1250, 9090DB, SX1010 etc. etc.
 
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z-adamson said:
But I was saying....what are these current production receivers that are as good or better, technically speaking (looks aside), than the vintage classics? Such as SX1250, 9090DB, SX1010 etc. etc.
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Never heard one, but the Luxman's get great reviews, and then there's always McIntosh's offerings. There's lots of good receivers being currently being made.
 
I've only owned two receivers before getting into separates in the 90's. Got bit by the vintage bug in 2008 and have around 25 receivers now. No, I haven't turned my back on separates. It's still my go to system. I just like the look of well made receivers. I appreciate the design that each company came up with for their different models. To me they can be industrial works of art. Luckily I got my vintage receivers before the recent uptick in prices.
It's fun to switch between different receivers, speakers ect.. My main system is rather static and will pretty much stay the way it is, as I'm quite happy with it's performance.
 
Back in the 60's I bought an integrated Mac with a Mac tuner after struggling with Fisher and Scott stuff. . It sounded great but didn't have the flexibility I wanted so I kept the tuner and bought a separate C- 22 and MC 240. Turned out not only was more flexible but sounded better than the MA 230. I have bought many times the amps I have pre-amps. I increased the power 4 to 5 times, gained 25 db signal to noise and a much higher damping factor which was a big improvement for my speakers in the 70's. I eventually changed pre-amps a couple of times and amps 3 more times and here I am today. With the quality I want and even greater flexibility. All by making improvements and not being tied to receivers, integrated amps, or AVR's. I guess if all you do is play records and stream you don't separates anymore. I do much more.
 
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I’ve owned separates receivers and integrates , I even tried a test of the Totl (Uber) receivers from the early to mid 2000’s to see how they stacked up against my seperates and integrated at the time. They actually weren’t that bad in some cases. I now have what they call a super integrated in that it’s basically seperates , it has seperate power supplies No Dac but considered an integrated because the pre amp is built in.

This is the best sounding piece of gear I have owned and tops many I have heard outside my room as well , it has been upgraded from the factory which makes it much different than its stock brothers.

Will I go to separates from this piece? Not unless I come across a set that has the power and synergy that this piece has and with that said I will never part with this gear , that’s not to say I won’t get something else to try out but this piece stays with me due to how excellent it sounds as well as rare . Here’s some Nudies to show the build quality and one with dressed up in her clothes .
E56FE3A9-E61B-40B0-8FCB-A8180CB800F4.jpeg CBB97E3B-47BE-4D9B-AE48-35CDBC5CA02F.jpeg 3F4D65F7-257F-47E8-BCB7-A477B0E0E31A.jpeg 37437082-63E0-4634-B735-A959B55998E6.jpeg 7E07C22F-27D2-49D7-A1C2-95BA5809CD8C.jpeg

Audiofreak71
 
Funny, but I remember growing up thinking that systems with receivers were "real hi-fi." The families of most of the kids that I knew had cheap compact stereos. Some of us were blessed with a bit better compact stereos like the KLH that was in my house. Folks who had stereos with receivers and separate turntables with such were much more rare. I seriously don't even think that I was aware that there was anything like separate amps, preamps, tuners and the like until I was an adult... Not much has changed though, as I seem to know very few folks with anything more than basic as far as audio goes. I'm definitely an outlier as far as that goes...
 
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I've got about 5 receivers and plenty of separates. Sometimes it's just convenient to have an all in one box to plug in and play.

But having so much functionality in a single box is the biggest downside as well. When one thing fails, the whole thing often becomes useless.
 
I'd rather listen to receivers from the 80s and 90s, and look at those from the 70s, myself. If I were using receivers. Current receiver models - even the two-channel offerings - are pretty dismal., with a few exceptions, such as McIntosh and Magnum Dynalab. On a tighter budget the Outlaw., maybe a Cambridge Audio (they sound pretty good to me) More affordable models are all about packing in so many features, DACs, Phono Inputs, Bluetooth, Networking, chip tuner, but often/usually leaving out tape loops, pre-main couplers, adequate number and type of inputs, and a good amp section.

Compared with receivers of twenty/twenty-five years ago, the integrated amp is where to look. Amplifier sections more robust than the receiver models, with lower distortion, better transformers, more inputs, and at least some of the features an old codger likes to see. An int-amp with a DAC is more comparable to the old receivers - so few people listen to broadcast radio these days, and those of us who do often prefer a separate tuner anyway.

Yeah, imo, other than the dearer models available, today's equivalent product to the old receiver is an int-amp with DAC. I know, you prefer to buy a separate DAC - some of you, maybe most. And that is another way it is like a receiver; separate DAC now, separate tuner then, for the "serious" enthusiast.

If I really wanted a receiver, I'd want a McIntosh. I'm unsure which model, but I'd be mining knowledge from our old friend, AKer KentTeffeteller, who could tell me which I want and why.
 
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