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The new FIIO Warmer R2R Tube Buffer DAC
- Thread starter Jon S
- Start date
Jon S
Super Member
Well, woke up this morning and there was someone at the door... Surprise! The FiiO Warmer had arrived!
I immediately replaced the JJ ECC88s with a quad of new Gold Lions. Installed the DAC, replacing the Schiit Mimir that was sitting there. I used the coax input and used NOS mode. I was struck by the significant difference in sound. The soundstage seemed larger. The bass was a tad boomy. It's going to take awhile for the Gold Lion tubes to break in so I will leave at that until the system is set through its paces.
I immediately replaced the JJ ECC88s with a quad of new Gold Lions. Installed the DAC, replacing the Schiit Mimir that was sitting there. I used the coax input and used NOS mode. I was struck by the significant difference in sound. The soundstage seemed larger. The bass was a tad boomy. It's going to take awhile for the Gold Lion tubes to break in so I will leave at that until the system is set through its paces.
Nice.
Still no update on mine, yet. At this point, who know when it will get ship out..
Was it worth the wait?
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What is your reasoning for not listening to this DAC in your system with the stock JJ tubes?
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Ok, but this is an entirely different kettle of fish. Tube buffer with only 28v on the plates. Would you consider running the JJ’s after a period of time with the Gold Lion’s? It’d be nice to know what you think of the differences. Did you end up just paying what APOS originally charged you or were there additional fees? I ask because you previously had some concern about that. Oh, and comparison to the Mimir too, please.
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Jon S
Super Member
I paid $350 total, no taxes, no shipping charges... There was no tariff charges (tariffs was set at 40% at the time of purchase so I was concerned. I thought Apos was shipping from California) either. Don't know how they did that because the DAC was shipped directly from China.
There was an immediate difference in sound compared to the Mimir. TBH, IMHO there was minimal difference between the Mimir and the DAC used in the Oppo BDP95 (both used ESS Sabre DACS although the Mimir is one generation newer. If your player already uses an ESS Sabre DAC, I would not consider the Mimir. I'm not sure what made the difference in sound, the R2R ladder or the tubes. It would be interesting to match the Warmer to the FiiO K13 R2R DAC.
The Warmer gives an immense soundstage... Everything and everybody sounded noticeably bigger. This means focus suffers, I'm not sure if I will test the Warmer with the JJ tubes. Swapping out tubes was easy but tedious. You need a phillips driver for the rear panel and torx drivers for the sides. Also the spring clips holding in the tubes is a bit tricky to manage as they kind of interfere with each other. I don't think the clips were really necessary because the sockets hold the tubes very snugly.
One thing that kind of annoys me is that the VU meters are bright, very bright. I really wish that Fiio had a adjustable control or switch for that. I see that the Warmer is in demand. Apos and Amazon do not expect delivery for a couple of months down the road. If you look at Ali Express, the prices range from $500 to $800!
Apos ships the DAC using YUN Express (never heard of them) and once it arrives in the US, the carrier changes to GOFO (never heard of them either) with a new tracking number. GOFO tracking is a mixed bag. It showed the DAC in Vernon, CA for a week and suddenly it was out for delivery. It showed the item as out of delivery at 8:00 PM but was delivered the next morning. Not sure who the delivery people were, but it was not USPS, UPS or Fedex.
There was an immediate difference in sound compared to the Mimir. TBH, IMHO there was minimal difference between the Mimir and the DAC used in the Oppo BDP95 (both used ESS Sabre DACS although the Mimir is one generation newer. If your player already uses an ESS Sabre DAC, I would not consider the Mimir. I'm not sure what made the difference in sound, the R2R ladder or the tubes. It would be interesting to match the Warmer to the FiiO K13 R2R DAC.
The Warmer gives an immense soundstage... Everything and everybody sounded noticeably bigger. This means focus suffers, I'm not sure if I will test the Warmer with the JJ tubes. Swapping out tubes was easy but tedious. You need a phillips driver for the rear panel and torx drivers for the sides. Also the spring clips holding in the tubes is a bit tricky to manage as they kind of interfere with each other. I don't think the clips were really necessary because the sockets hold the tubes very snugly.
One thing that kind of annoys me is that the VU meters are bright, very bright. I really wish that Fiio had a adjustable control or switch for that. I see that the Warmer is in demand. Apos and Amazon do not expect delivery for a couple of months down the road. If you look at Ali Express, the prices range from $500 to $800!
Apos ships the DAC using YUN Express (never heard of them) and once it arrives in the US, the carrier changes to GOFO (never heard of them either) with a new tracking number. GOFO tracking is a mixed bag. It showed the DAC in Vernon, CA for a week and suddenly it was out for delivery. It showed the item as out of delivery at 8:00 PM but was delivered the next morning. Not sure who the delivery people were, but it was not USPS, UPS or Fedex.
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Ok, then. I suspect the tube spring clips are there for shipping stability. I’d think it not even necessary to clip them back in place after swapping tubes. The VU lights don’t bother me. As you know there are plenty of light dimming materials availabe for cutting to size. Perhaps you could try that. Let us know how you like it after a hundred hours or so. In the meantime, enjoy it.
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So i finally got my Warmer last night. My initial impressions compared to the SMSL SU1 is that the music sounds fuller or rounder if that makes sense. I listen to a lot of 90s music - alternative, britpop, triphop, etc. I think the harshness on some of these albums/recordings have been tamed somehow by the fiio warmer. Less sibilance on the vocals for sure. The SMSL is a wonderful dac, but i think i prefer the Fiio Warmer. It’s 3 or 4 times the price of the smsl but the improvement (for my taste) is definitely worth the upgrade. The warmer is connected to 2 systems, first is a VTL IT85 + JBL 4312 (no letter version) and the other is a Mcintosh MA6100 + ADS L710. The Warmer is excellent in both, and i think the JBL really benefits from it. The VU meters of course brings the value over the top. $350 well spent in my opinion.
Quadaptor!
Active Member
A while back I put up a post asking the question "are we thinking about DACs as tone controls?" By that, I meant are we thinking about DACs more so as devices that modify the basic signal into something else. Considering that a DAC's basic job is to only convert an digital signal to an analog signal. And not to enhance the signal in any way. If one wants a Warmer DAC then more power to them. However, I would add that the sound you are enjoying with it may suggest the money would be better spent on a good tube amp than a DAC. As they say, hifi is a journey. And leave the tubes out of the DAC. As for VU meters, is anyone actually using them for something functional. They look cool, but the best thing I ever learned from VU meters when measuring watts is how little power an amp is actually putting out at any given time. It really readjusted my thinking on high powered amps. Beyond that, if I could get the same unit at a lower cost without VU meters then that would be the better deal. Anyway, for purposes of marketing I think the Warmer is doing things that are not necessary for a DAC and , in this situation, one might be better served pursing the world of tube amplification. I'm not condemning it, but instead questioning its need from a consumer's and stereo enthusiast's perspective.
That's not been my experience...but I'm just a sample of one. I sold my CJ tube preamp and power amp for Pass Labs solid state pre (X1) and power (X150) and am very happy that I did. However, adding the Warmer to the system has provided a sound that I enjoy much more so than when I had the CJ tube gear. The Warmer may colour the source a bit but it's a colouration that I enjoy. Similarly, I've just bought a Koetsu Black Goldline cartridge which is supposed to have a very lush midrange - not as neutral as most other cartridges. I'm waiting to mount it upon receiving a new tonearm that's suited for its lower compliance. So, in both cases, I'm trying to introduce a sound that appeals to me right from the source... and it's carried through to the speakers. Not everyone agrees with that approach...but I'm happy with it. YMMV.
Quadaptor!
Active Member
That's cool. And believe me, there's about a million and one reasons not going with a tube amp!
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There is no rule about where you add color to a system. Bottom line is, how does it sound to you. I suspect the FIOO warmer has it's own distinct warmth signature. One that is unique and not applicable to preamplifiers. The source has always been a great starting point for voicing a system. The idea that a DAC's job is to simply convert Digital to Analog is not true. Some people prefer that in a DAC for their own reasons. But it is not a universal truth.
Each step in system building reveals, over time, the next step.
Quadaptor!
Active Member
I hear you but, for me, I'm looking for a lack of color or warmth signature from a DAC. I want that to come from the amp, preamp and speakers I choose to go with. And I don't want that compromised. I am beginning to believe that it may be next to impossible finding a DAC that , by design, doesn't impose some sort of electronic signature or enhancement on the sound. Not trying to be difficult and I do respect your opinion. However, I would have to say that my rule would be good honest clear signal conversion and nothing else. But that may be a marketing dead end.
It's not a marketing dead end. They are simply products that people may or may not like for the sonic qualities they prefer and the budget they have. You have a right to your rule. I'm not sure why you would impose a rule on yourself. Rule's are generally for groups of people to align their behaviors based on their values or to a threat. I think it serves everyone to keep and open mind. It seems a lot of people are enjoying the warmer for what it is. It's the most popular product I have seen in a while, if ever. Sounds like a lot of people are having a lot of fun with it.
Quadaptor!
Active Member
Maybe I should have said its my taste, not a rule. And I'm nobody to tell anyone don't have any fun. By a marketing dead end, I meant a product that was only a DAC and didn't rely on something else to influence the sound - such as a tube buffer. But that's just my taste in gear. I want to stay pure to the amp/preamp and speakers I use. And this is just an opinion from a sample of one, not an imposition on anyone other than I. Thanks for the comment!