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The price of things.

catman

catman

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G'day all, please excuse my cynical ramblings! I was just reading a thread on a newish commercially made phono stage and whilst it is apparently very nice, I really get somewhat annoyed at the cost of these things when equivalent or better pieces of gear can be built DIY, at much less cost.

This is why I DIY most everything electronic I use in hi fi and definitely all my phono stages. :yes: My preferred ESP P06, P99 and P05B power supplies not to mention my breadboarded VSPS DIY effort, may not be too overly pretty to look at, but they are all excellent pieces of gear and perform superbly. I really shake my head in utter disbelief at the prices charged by manufacturers for their commercially made gear. Rant over. :yes: :D Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
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Hi Felix,
I went to the New York Hi-Fi show, and I knew that the stuff they were showing
were showing was hi priced, that's the way things go I guess and everything's separate
there was a time when you can get a preamp with a great phono stage in it, not any
more and the prices.

Tube
 
G'day mate, I have no issue with good value for money however it's when the value is not really there that I get annoyed. A few years ago with a little help from me, a friend successfully assembled an ESP P06, P05B and a P99 phono stage, and we compared it against his existing Cambridge 640P.

The 640P even in stock form is a pretty good phono stage but his DIY effort positively blew the 640P into the weeds. He now uses it on a secondary system. His DIY effort cost him around 100 dollars (Australian) and he saved on a metal case by using an old faulty digital set top box. See what I mean about value for money? Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
catman said:
G'day mate, I have no issue with good value for money however it's when the value is not really there that I get annoyed. A few years ago with a little help from me, a friend successfully assembled an ESP P06, P05B and a P99 phono stage, and we compared it against his existing Cambridge 640P.

The 640P even in stock form is a pretty good phono stage but his DIY effort positively blew the 640P into the weeds. He now uses it on a secondary system. His DIY effort cost him around 100 dollars (Australian) and he saved on a metal case by using an old faulty digital set top box. See what I mean about value for money? Regards, Felix aka catman.
Click to expand...

If it is that good, maybe you guys should sell your design in kit form, with a custom-made 'CatMan' chassis case. I'd buy it. :thmbsp:
 
If I'm not misunderstanding, you sound like you consider readymade electronics to be something of a rip-off based on the price. Felix, you would probably be even more disappointed if you learned how little (compared to your cost) Jaycar paid THEIR suppliers for the "inexpensive" materials you use to DIY your stuff.

The point is folks have got to earn their bread somehow and there is a whole supply chain of people with their hands out, not to mention the cost of marketing, shipping, admin salaries, etc. That's how capitalism works. You just removed the last link on the chain by assembling your own stuff, and I say more power to ya!
 
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I doubt you could sell your DIY creation for less than the equivalent performance of anything else out there. The cost to make something is only a fraction of what it costs to bring something to market, market, and distribute it.

Not to mention- how do you know that what they're selling isn't better? I've heard some really incredible, but expensive, phono stages. I've never heard a really good, cheap, non-DIY stage. And my belief in capitalism is such that I believe if somebody could build one better and distribute it, they'd market it. The best cheap stage I've heard so far is the DB Systems DB-8, and it is not even close to being on the same playing field as the phono section of my Klyne preamp.

But it wouldn't be a new day if there wasn't a thread complaining about prices of things on AK.
 
G'day mate, yes you are quite right about dealers prices. :yes: I know that for a fact.

No I'm absolutely hopeless in any kind of business. :yes: In the end though, DIY can produce very high quality at moderate prices, although having said that, low cost may not be the only reason to DIY. http://sound.westhost.com/why-diy.htm Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
Just further.

G'day all, I have no illusions about business and surviving in business and trying to deliver a quality product at a competitive price, all at the same time.

I for one believe in free enterprise and 'regulated' capitalism. I know of personal close friends/ acquaintances who tried very hard in business and still failed. One case was a friend running a cafe whose service standard and quality was superb, but that did not guarantee success in business. Actually it did the opposite. :yes:

In the end though there has to be a reasonable balance, as with everything in life. Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
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JohnVF said:
I doubt you could sell your DIY creation for less than the equivalent performance of anything else out there. The cost to make something is only a fraction of what it costs to bring something to market, market, and distribute it.

Not to mention- how do you know that what they're selling isn't better? I've heard some really incredible, but expensive, phono stages. I've never heard a really good, cheap, non-DIY stage. And my belief in capitalism is such that I believe if somebody could build one better and distribute it, they'd market it. The best cheap stage I've heard so far is the DB Systems DB-8, and it is not even close to being on the same playing field as the phono section of my Klyne preamp.

But it wouldn't be a new day if there wasn't a thread complaining about prices of things on AK.
Click to expand...

So it is, and people buy what they want to buy. There is no force making people buy anything really, but mostly what is cheap is cheap and looks cheap. Would I trade my exquisite Accuphase for a DIY, yeah right.
gusten
 
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G'day all, perhaps my sense of Aspergers induced 'fair play' is evident here, but I really hate to see anyone 'ripped off'. Sadly this does happen in business all too often.

As I said before I actually don't mind paying big dollars (if only I had any :D) if it's a great quality product and worth the expense! Sadly though, over the years in the area of audio and vinyl I have seen absolute junk masquerading as high quality with a price tag to match.....and people will buy it too.

I guess 'caveat emptor' always applies, but I'm not comfortable with the sometimes deliberate 'ripping off' of people in business. Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
When I see the prices on that high end gear the first thought that pops into my head isn't that it's over priced, it's "how many of those do they really sell at that price".
 
Believe it or not, sometimes you do indeed get what you pay for.

Each to there own.

Happy Listening ………………….. :music:
 
I don´t think we should criticize people for buying something they want to buy, be it expensive or be it cheap, there is no call for that. We are free to buy whatever we like, if we can.

Being expensive it not automatically the same as a 'rip off', a 'rip off' to me is something else and not really coupled with price. A DIY kit could just as well be a 'rip off' if not performing as stated, which in these cases also could be very hard to know.

We like what we like and we buy what we want, and so it should be.
gusten
 
G'day mate, yep I agree. :yes: Deliberate 'misrepresentation' of whatever kind, bothers me though. Ok, I'm off to sleep now, it's 11:15 pm over here. Goodnight everyone! Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
Here's a phono stage that I've heard, which sounds quite nice, where the company seems to be pretty transparent about where the cost comes from. Basically, parts quality improves as you go up the line and the circuit stays roughly the same and "not special" in the words of the designer. Just solid, with excellent parts quality. And still- they're not cheap.

http://www.lfd-audio.co.uk/phono_stages.html

The one I heard was really quite good. I feel no sense of an impending rip-off from this company, yet the one I looked at was still north of $1000.

The idea of "you get what you pay for" does not mean that you subscribe to the idea that everything expensive is worth it. It just means that everything cheap is probably incapable of matching the performance of something that had a budget, where the budget is properly applied to the build and not just to line the pockets of those making it. That rip-off stuff is out there- it doesn't, however, mean that some expensive things aren't well worth the money if you have it. I have auditioned and owned quite of few things said to be "giant killers" and honestly, all were beaten by the right giant. The only exceptions I can think of would be DIY- and if you took them to market, in decent casework, they'd also be expensive, or they wouldn't compete with the better pricey stuff that was competently designed.

I also thought my DB-systems preamp was better than it was. Getting the Klyne showed me that the DB preamp is what it is. Solid, budget, and ok but not outstanding. I had thought I was closer to the performance of the big boys than I ultimately was.
 
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