The retro look

[Tinnkindling]

In reality, most audio stuff sold into the mass market is actually a computer with a chip amp. That's why the volume and tuning controls are push buttons, rather than potentiometers. And the reason that they are made this way is because it is cheap to do so.

Of course, there are exceptions, but they are most likely not aimed at the mass market. Like most tech products, electronic devices are incredibly cheap when compared, in constant dollars, to the stuff from the 70s. I think I paid, in 1978, about $800 for a Marantz 2330. I'd hazard a guess that $800 then is probably about $6000 today. And similarly, I remember, in 2001, buying a Sony XBR flat screen 32 inch TV for $2600. All 176 pounds of it! I gave it away about 5 years later when I got a much larger flatscreen for about the same price. Now, that flatscreen could be bought for about $800 or even less.

Billet aluminum knobs, variable condensers, panel meters, solid aluminum face plates--I love em all, but would I pay for them? That's the question.

 

[specialone53]

Billet aluminum knobs, variable condensers, panel meters, solid aluminum face plates--I love em all, but would I pay for them? That's the question.

And that's why I see people going after things like a Pioneer SX-1250, or a Dual 1229.
:thmbsp:

 

[Arkay]

There are a few companies making "retro" designs. They fall into two main categories:

1. Retro looks at a low price point, with cheap guts. Crosley have long been the masters of this. They have their market, but it ain't us audiophile types.

2. Retro looks at a higher price point, with "modern" guts that remain competitive with other current offerings in modern housings. Luxman comes to mind. Denon has done a couple things along those lines, too, as has TEAC. Their stuff is not all that cheap, which limits their market.

What I think the OP misses out on is the truth of the quality comparison. The genuine older gear is already, say, 30-40 years old. Will the modern stuff last even half that long? It really is a debatable question. Most modern surface-mounted components will NOT last as long as the old discrete components soldered on boards. Even if they do, you won't be able to simply solder in your own replacement and keep the gear alive for more years to come. Even if a particular value of capacitor or resistor goes out of production, there is usually a simple work-around using other components in series or parallel, to create a similar value. However, integrated chips in modern gear may well be out of production and unobtanium. You can't do a simple work-around to replace one of them.

Capacitors, resistors, etc... are better today than they used to be, as materials science/technology has progressed. Completely re-build a vintage piece, and it will probably out-last the original (up to the limitations of things like wire insulation in transformers). The same simply cannot be said nor done, with modern gear.

If they tried to make modern gear the same as the older stuff (beyond cosmetic outer casings), it would become too expensive.

In a nutshell, that's why so many of us like to acquire and fix up the older stuff. We get terrific build quality, and after the investment of some resources, a pretty good shot at longevity, too. Great value-for-money.

If you want modern guts in a retro housing, then go buy one of the Luxmans, Teacs, etc... They're available, and they might make you happy. For the same or less money, though, I'd personally prefer an original oldie. Reworked correctly, it'll probably last as long despite the age it has already acquired, and I get the real deal, not an imitation. Just my view; your mileage may vary.

 

[Glass Prison]

If you can get a vintage piece for a reasonable price getting it rebuilt by a reputable tech is worth it. The modern gear like the Luxman is welcome in my home anytime.
I remember back in the day when I bought a Marantz 2325. It was expensive and I think it was around $600 or $650. So when I trade, buy, sell and save to get that modern piece I don't regret it. But I love my vintage stuff and it's more than just nostalgia. Some of that gear has such a nice sound. When I listen to Thelonius Monk-Monk on a vintage piece I just melt into the chair. Nothing bothers me then. :thmbsp:

 

[specialone53]

Consider this, people.....

Back in 1976, you lusted for that $399.00 receiver, and you made maybe $178 bucks a week.
You saved... and scrimped.
Eventually, you got nice quality.

Today, you make what? - $750 a week, more? - cost of living increases?
You lust for that same crusty old receiver on ePray, scoring it for maybe $145 - AND needing a $599 pro restoration to bring it back to sonic, cosmetic, and reliability standards.

But, you're getting that quality that once was.... for much less.

 

[SuperjazzyJa]

Personally, I prefer black faceplates and as few switches and knobs as possible. If I were to have a stand alone preamp or integrated custom made, it would have a power switch, source selector, volume control and variable loudness control on the front panel. That's all. Wood side panels? Okay, but not required.

 

[Rob41]

I say to the OP, if you want that retro look then go retro. As mentioned, it costs too much to include the pots, knobs etc. on new mainstream gear. It's out there but you'll pay through the nose for it.

Vintage gear also had a lot of junk but if you're at, or near TOTL you'll find it was high quality and built to last for generations.

Many.......many enthusiasts here and elsewhere are running vintage gear and this is possible because it's either still working well after all these years or they have paid to have it brought up to snuff for another 30-40 years.

I just picked up another SAE 2600 in super condition cosmetically. When I get home I'll spend about $30 dollars to replace all the resistors, small electrolytics and some other bits. If I need to replace all the output transistors that will add another $65 but it's fully functioning so the outputs are likely good. If I couldn't do this, I'd hire a good tech to do a complete job for $700-$1000 and still be way ahead of the game.

I was fortunate to find this one. I got it for just a few hundred bucks. I won't have much at all invested in an absolute powerhouse of an amp that's built to stand the test of time.

A shmuck with a businessmans suit is still a shmuck. If you want retro get the real deal. Do you remember the fiberglass front end kits sold through J.C.Whitney that you bolted onto a VW bug? They made the bolt ons to look like the front end of a Rolls Royce.

 

[titanstats]

OT break!

...the FM part of the equation is not desirable anymore.

I see pictures all the time on this site with beautiful looking vintage receivers, flashy lights and dials, and I doubt anyone ever even listens to the the radio. It's all eye candy.

Not for me, but I guess it depends on where you live. FM here is pretty good; my tuner dialed in to CBC2 (and to a lesser extent CBC1) is my most used source by a long shot.

OK, back on topic.

 

[909Hemi]

Personally, I prefer black faceplates and as few switches and knobs as possible. If I were to have a stand alone preamp or integrated custom made, it would have a power switch, source selector, volume control and variable loudness control on the front panel. That's all. Wood side panels? Okay, but not required.

Yuk. uke:

 

[ra7c7er]

What you've just concluded makes me think of Corporate Greed and desperation, that's all.
And that's surely the case with today's manufacturers AND suppliers - lots of them.
The cost of living factors in this pitiful mess too.

Cutting costs by cutting corners is the bottom line for decades, but yet, that 1957 Belair was chromed up, and the average person bought it anyway.
Pride of ownership was/is for reasons too many to count, but has developed into a throwaway society. - thus the cheepening of products to current levels.
The "out to make money" mindset of companies has really gotten to the point of pissing off the consumer though, and the manufacturers are aware of this.
But how to fix the problem?
Import parts from asian sources? - so far, no good. - people are tired of the junk coming over here.
"Made In China" has become a dirty phrase - finally.

That's a bad example the 57 Belair was the most expensive and least sold model of the 57.

 

[ictwoody]

There's plenty of new gear out there that has a retro vibe and is high end. One of my unicorns, Leben.

- Woody

 

[jose7740]

I was thinking that electronics of today are more reliable than yesterday so that is why I wanted to see manufacturers going with the retro look, in the seventies GM made cars with electronics that did not work good for example the Cadillac with the 8/6/4 engine that would not run like designed, cars with digital dashes were also a problem and led watches like mine bought in the seventies that quit soon after. The electronics of today are much better so I think new stereo gear should be very reliable but if you have to pay many thousands of dollars, I think it is a good idea to buy old gear and restore it.

 

[mhardy6647]

The problem with modern electronics is the short lifespan of the technology. Today you can still new production 2A3 vacuum tubes (direct-heated triodes) - but ca. 5 years after production, proprietary ICs for modern electronics are often made of the purest unobtainium.

The EU actually has laws regulating the availability of parts and support for electronic equipment.

 

[iLUVanalog]

909Hemi is judging the Outlaw receiver strictly on looks, knowing absolutely nothing about it in practice. As such, I dismiss his uninformed comment.

As an actual owner of the RR2150, it may look "retro", but that's where any similarity ends. The receiver is an outstanding and powerful performer.

It also got a very positive review.

 

[sqlsavior]

If you want modern guts in a retro housing, then go buy one of the Luxmans, Teacs, etc... They're available, and they might make you happy. For the same or less money, though, I'd personally prefer an original oldie. Reworked correctly, it'll probably last as long despite the age it has already acquired, and I get the real deal, not an imitation. Just my view; your mileage may vary.

However you put it,

ModernGuts X Luxman < Preferable

is an equation I cannot understand.

 

[Rod Beauvex]

To all these people complaining about modern technology being full of unobtanium, have you seen any PECs for sale? How about EXACT REPLACEMENT multisection caps? 8417 tubes? Specialty pots, like many old stereos use? What about those funky speaker plugs some classic receivers use? How about V-Fets, have you priced one of those for cheap lately?

Proprietary parts have been used since the beginning of manufacturing, and many pieces that used them are still functioning 30, 40, sometimes 50 years down the road. Ignoring a modern piece because of proprietary components is just sour grapes.

 

[just dave]

Here's an idea, make a "classic" or "'70's retro" receiver with a nice big glass plate with what appears to be a radio dial behind it ... that is actually a touch screen. Imagine dragging you finger down the dial and the needle follows it. Turn the knob and the pointer moves, press the knob and the dial changes to, maybe, a menu for various "modern" functions.

Someone with design chops ( Pioneer, Yamaha, TEAC? ) needs to try this.

EDIT : I see that they've already done some work in that vein from the pics above.

Mark Gosdin

I had a similar idea for a modern receiver with the tuning dial replace with a lcd display that looks just like a tuning dial. You still have your tuning knob and the dial pointer moves as a regular one would only it's part of the lcd display.With the display you could also change the type of meters too.

 

[Rod Beauvex]

I had a similar idea for a modern receiver with the tuning dial replace with a lcd display that looks just like a tuning dial. You still have your tuning knob and the dial pointer moves as a regular one would only it's part of the lcd display.With the display you could also change the type of meters too.

Behold, the McIntosh MR88

Not LCDs, though. What you're describing isn't a new idea. Pioneer and Yamaha had some low end receivers back in the early eighties that had an LED bar graph and a 'dial' of painted numbers, and the LEDs indicated vaugely a place in the dial. The Pioneer was the SX-4 or SX-5, and I forgot what the Yamaha one was. The tuners themselves were fully electronic.

 

[909Hemi]

909Hemi is judging the Outlaw receiver strictly on looks, knowing absolutely nothing about it in practice. As such, I dismiss his uninformed comment.

As an actual owner of the RR2150, it may look "retro", but that's where any similarity ends. The receiver is an outstanding and powerful performer.

It also got a very positive review.

You're right, Luv! I know it's a quality piece of equipment... but WHY did they make it look like a 1935-something (Fricking table radio?!) when they could have made it look like a 1978 receiver for the same design and tooling costs??

 

[iLUVanalog]

You're right, Luv! I know it's a quality piece of equipment... but WHY did they make it look like a 1935-something (Fricking table radio?!) when they could have made it look like a 1978 receiver for the same design and tooling costs??

Your question should perhaps be directed to the Outlaw Audio people. I would guess they didn't want it to look like any other 1978 receiver. The look of this receiver is interesting, but I'm far, far more concerned about its performance, which is excellent. The appearance of this receiver was totally intentional. You have to admit...it looks different from anything else.