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The Vintage High End Separates Thread

Blue Shadow said:
I'm not picking on anyone in this thread with this post. Thanks for your submission.

OK I'm up on my soapbox>Rant ON

I don't like this thread. Jim in the first post, mentions let's see who has knowledge or experience with a short list of high end gear. This has lead to post after post of "here is one I have"

We are not learning anything about this gear with these posts. If you have one of these units, it would be much better IMO, to Post a new thread in this section and talk about the unit and how you like it, how it sounds and anything else that want to add to make us want one, too.

We have had a few discussions of brands or chunks of gear in this forum that are really helpful for folks wanting to learn about Vintage High End Gear.

The other thread I hate is in General, again started by a mod that proclaims to be the forum to discuss leading edge vintage gear no matter the cost.
Classic High-End Gear | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

these two threads are discussion stoppers, Folks post what they have and move on. No continuity with all the different brands and the part that makes me hate them is Very Limited Discussion about the individual pieces of gear. We don't have very many discussions that last a few pages like the SS forum has for how many different receivers. Hell, I bet Harman Kardon 330 discussions on AK is significantly more than all of the high end discussions combined. Sure a hundred thousand folks had a 330 and not many bought high end gear but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do more to have threads for different units/brands instead of two threads in all of ak proclaiming to the be the place to discuss high end gear.

Maybe if this forum "High-End Separates from Years Past" could be wedged in between "Solid State" and "Tube Audio" or even placed after Tube Audio, it would be more popular and get more threads going.

I haven't owned much high end gear but have had separates since my first rig. I kinda keep what I have for too long and discussions about the high end gear from years past would be a great place to read about how the gear sounds, how the removed part numbers make it difficult DIY repair and the cost of refresh from the factory.

Anything to get more high end gear discussions going. Not a couple threads collecting all the posts that should be Thread Starters not just another post in a long thread rambling around among different manufacturers.

Rant OFF

If you made it this far, thanks for reading. post of your comments if they aren't against the rules. I'd post a link to a previous rant about a separate forum out in the fresh air of "Audiokarma Audio Forums" instead of hidden in "Audiokarma System Building" if I could find it. I'm patiently waiting for search to return.
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Can't but agree ..
And the whole ball of wax is complicated by the definition of "high end" ..
Really it's all pretty relative .. a Pioneer receiver and a set of bookshelves is high end compared to a phone or bluetooth speaker ..
You can only go by what you have heard, and many, many people have never heard what I would call a high end system ..

I haunted audio stores in my teens and sat in the high end rooms for as long as they would let me ..
Started buying high end separates 50 years ago when I was 17 ..
My idea of a vacation was Yay, hey, new audio stores to explore.
To me, High end doesn't mean expensive it means very very realistic music reproduction .. but a person can only judge based on what they've heard ..
State of the Art is probably a better description and a better discussion ..
There are many older State of the Art pieces that are still close to state of the Art today ..and a lot more affordable now that they're used ..

And to those folks who haven't had the pleasure .. A Mark Levinson playing in to a set of Martin Logans sets the bar ..
 
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Maybe the high end words could be removed from the title to allow all preamps and power amps the be represented. I mean who is going to put the Onkyo P-303 in the high end, yet it is supposed to sound great and has a cost admission that supports that opinion.

Somewhere to talk about the gear that sets bars like an Audio Research system driving Magneplanars.
 
Blue Shadow said:
Maybe the high end words could be removed from the title to allow all preamps and power amps the be represented. I mean who is going to put the Onkyo P-303 in the high end, yet it is supposed to sound great and has a cost admission that supports that opinion.

Somewhere to talk about the gear that sets bars like an Audio Research system driving Magneplanars.
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The space is here and I think maybe it belongs in the Cutting Edge .. pieces that are or were State of the Art ..

It's about the designers that push the limits and keep perfecting the sound of their pieces ..

Bill Johnson -- Audio Research ..
Conrad Johnson ..
Jim Winey -- Magnepan ..
Richard Vandersteen ..
John Curl ..
David Wilson .. Wilson Speakers

Those guys that push the limits .. they're smaller companies mostly.. not big conglomerates making a statement piece once every 10 years ..
I don't know of many if any truly high end products designed by committee ..
High end pieces are pieces with a pedigree..
 
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Every manufacturer had high end models. But of course 300 USD amplifier (when New) never will be high end.

Akustic said:
. a Pioneer receiver and a set of bookshelves is high end compared to a phone or bluetooth speaker ..
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On this forum World is upside down. Oversized radios aka receivers cost more than high end models. I would never buy oversized radio for 5000 USD, 3000usd or even 1000 USD. But well thats me. Maybe im like that cause im from Europe, we in Europe are not that interested in receivers. My Friends and people i know doesnt have receivers and definitely wouldnt buy pioneer sx 1980 or other sansui receivers for few thousands of USD
 
Joewag said:
Groucho Marx once said that he would never join any club that would have him as a member. I suppose I come from the Groucho school here. If I own it, it’s not high end.
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Except that it's not necessarily high cost .. it's about careful choices ..
That's why the word "high end" is the wrong word ..
 
So, who's the arbiter of what constitutes the "high end", or is it just the cost of admission:dunno:

I've had Mac separates and they were special, but I have to say as much as I liked my MC-2002 my Belles Model I amps are schveeter.
 
Sgt Shultz said:
So, who's the arbiter of what constitutes the "high end", or is it just the cost of admission
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I found this definition on other forum

"High-end Audio = Luxury Audio.
State of the art materials, constructions and finish is used.
This means expensive and not really affordable to the masses.
Usually bought to impress others or by those who enjoy luxury items and have plenty of cash for it.

The performance of most of the electronic equipment may not be better or can be even poorer than that of well designed and built affordable products but most likely won't have the luxury appeal."

I think its quite accurate definition of high end

And Below high end range according to Stereo review magazine from 1989

Screenshot_20230215-122427.jpg
 
Pioneer.user said:
I found this definition on other forum

"High-end Audio = Luxury Audio.
State of the art materials, constructions and finish is used.
This means expensive and not really affordable to the masses.
Usually bought to impress others or by those who enjoy luxury items and have plenty of cash for it.

The performance of most of the electronic equipment may not be better or can be even poorer than that of well designed and built affordable products but most likely won't have the luxury appeal."

I think its quite accurate definition of high end

And Below high end range according to Stereo review magazine from 1989

View attachment 2860021
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Well, according to that article most of my systems if not all qualify as most were more than $1500, and some more than $10,000 back before this article was written.

Even my late 7O's Kenwood silver stack was more than $1500 new:dunno:
 
There is a high end and ultra pricey high end.
For example accuphase p500, considered as high end, price was around 2200 USD back in 80s
Technics se a 7000 almost top model, cost was around 3200 usd
JVC Victor ml 10, top model, price in 80s in USA was approx 2800.
These are high end models but price isnt stratospheric
 
Therein lies the rub ...
If we haven't defined it in 50 years it probably won't happen today ...

Better to talk about State of the Art .. and the designers that define it .
Or those pieces that have been redesigned or refined to sound better than they did ...
At least that way it's about sound quality not some amount spent...
 
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More than one audio rag reviewer has stated that the AR XA was their first real taste of the high end.

I let my ears tell me what I like.
 
Sgt Shultz said:
So, who's the arbiter of what constitutes the "high end", or is it just the cost of admission:dunno:

I've had Mac separates and they were special, but I have to say as much as I liked my MC-2002 my Belles Model I amps are schveeter.
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You just defined the problem didn't you ??
There are a lot of people who think that a Sansui, Marantz or Pioneer receiver is high end ..especially that sweet 20 wpc model ..
Are you going to tell them that it isn't ??

It's all relative ..
 
Akustic said:
Pioneer receiver is high end ..especially that sweet 20 wpc model ..
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Now if you had said 30wpc, we'd have the Pioneer M-22 to hold up as damn near high end.

I don't really care if the major brands show up, they will, there were boatloads of them sold in the US and only a truckload or two of the high end gear. It would be nice to have a place to talk about separates, preamps and power amps that isn't hidden and isn't getting thread bombed by the receiver crowd that believes that using one transformer to produce power for a preamp, tuner, two amp channels, lights and all the other knobs, switches, buttons, dials and meters is just as good as a proper transformer (or two for some amps) for each separate component. I mean DACs have a spot, Digital has three sub forums and Separates are cast off to be part of the secret system building section with The Cutting Edge where we can't argue about spending money on cables. I would just skip over the run-of-the-mill separates and discuss the better gear that doesn't show up much on ak because it isn't easy to find a place to discuss it and limited discussions when there are threads about them.
 
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I couldn't agree more. While companies like Pioneer made separates, Id rather hear about Forte's or Conrad Johnson. Part of the problem is we're all zealous about the gear we own, and given the chance we proclaim as the best.
 
High end is nearly completely non existent here. Where is accuphase? No kenwood but accuphase. Luxman? Luxman doesnt even have sub forum which is hilarious. But instead, receivers/oversized radios everywhere.
 
I really enjoy my Jeff Rowland Consonance...1992 I believe...I worry more about keeping it in top shape electronically (went to Jeff last year) than getting rid of it.
 
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