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There's No Question -- KHorns Need Tube Gear

Parallax982

Super Member
Some of you know that I recently acquired a Fisher 400, which was like a revelation once paired with my Klipschorns. My wife and I spent hours listening together on the couch, unable to pull ourselves away. Everything sounded so sweet and transparent. That was on Saturday. On Sunday night, the Fisher blew. There was a loud pop. When I finally checked the fuse, it was blown. But trying to restart it with a new fuse on a dim bulb tester revealed that something's seriously wrong, as the unit remained dead and the bulb glowed brightly.

Since then, I've dusted off every transistor receiver I have. Thought that maybe one of the cap-coupled units might at least be able to come close to the Fisher. But no. It's just not the same. Have to get the Fisher fixed. Or find another great tube receiver, integrated or maybe just a plain old amp.

It's funny because the system in our master bedroom runs on transistors and is dialed in beautifully. A recapped Marantz 2230 (yes, cap coupled) with input through a Geshelli Labs J2 DAC (AKM 4499 chipset with Sparkos opamps) feeding into Coral BX-300 speakers plus a Hsu VTX-2 subwoofer. Took a long time to figure out the master bedroom system, to bring all the pieces together and to master the subwoofer settings and the placement of speakers. But the result is so sweet. Not better or worse than the downstairs system (Fisher plus KHorns). Different. Hard to compare because the rooms are different. Both are really sweet. Both sound great, played softly or loud. There are similarities. Both are sweet and clear, with a wide sound stage (upstairs as a result of the Geshelli J2, downstairs because of the KHorns). The 2230, bringing some of the benefits of transistor gear, makes that system a bit stronger and tighter. Downstairs, with just the Fisher and the KHorns, it's not as tight or responsive but the sound stage is the widest I've ever experienced. When the Fisher was running, the transparency was beyond anything I'd experienced before too. Even before I obtained the Fisher, the KHorns running off a Marantz 2270 blew me away. That wasn't true for my wife and now it's not true for me either. Now, with the 2270, the system sounds a bit metalic and the joy is gone. I've been spoiled. With the Fisher, my wife finally understood why I'd expended all this time, money and effort to improve a system we already liked well enough. Yet even with the Fisher, I sense there's still potential to go further.

I'm sure, over time, we'll get it all figured out. First, fixing the Fisher. Then figuring out whether the Fisher or the KHorns or the room itself can be improved. Bottom line, though: It seems there's no substitute for tube gear with these KHorns. Now that I've been to the promised land, all of my transistor gear falls short. Good stuff. Marantzes. Pioneers. Sansuis. A Kenwood. An old Realistic that, in some settings, is surprisingly good. A non-vintage Denon 5.1 receiver which I usually use as a preamp but has a nice amplifier too. None of them match the Fisher in revealing the potential of these speakers.
 
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Sounds great. The thing I have no idea about are the differences between tube gear. Your Carry Audio versus my Fisher. Different models from each brand. Obviously something new is going to be more reliable (and perhaps also more expensive to acquire). I'd like to know more about the various virtues and challenges of different options. I heard from folks that the Fisher is a good way to go. When I saw this 400, I did some online research and saw that there are those who think it's the best of the Fishers. Not in terms of controls -- it's a stripped down 500c -- but rather in terms of sound. Others say all the Fishers sound great. Yet others prefer the 500 or the 800.

There are those who say the Fishers stand up well against everything else. Others say McIntosh (vintage or new) or vintage Marantz or Dynaco or Scott or other tube gear is better. It's hard to imagine having the opportunity to sample many options given the cost.
 
I've related this story before but it was a similar reaction

I'd always been a SS guy.

I bought a Sansui BA-202 for cheapo as it was a mess. My excellent tech fixed it up
I traded for a pair of Cornwalls with the intention of flipping them.

I hooked them up to together to make sure everything was working right

That must have been 10 years ago and it's still the beating heart of my system...

It may be black magic, but I did NOT go into it expecting ANYTHING. At best blank slate - at worst dubious

I had no confidence in that old tube magic.....
 
I've related this story before but it was a similar reaction

I'd always been a SS guy.

I bought a Sansui BA-202 for cheapo as it was a mess. My excellent tech fixed it up
I traded for a pair of Cornwalls with the intention of flipping them.

I hooked them up to together to make sure everything was working right

That must have been 10 years ago and it's still the beating heart of my system...

It may be black magic, but I did NOT go into it expecting ANYTHING. At best blank slate - at worst dubious

I had no confidence in that old tube magic.....
That's a great story. Perhaps you're like me. I'm not in the "it's tubes or nothing" camp. I know it's possible to create great systems with SS gear. Even systems that share many similarities with tube systems. But when it comes to KHorns, it's tubes or nothing. At least until someone shows me it's possible to create something just as nice without tubes. Like you, I found tubes with KHorns to be a kind of revelation. They shine their best with tubes. Perhaps because they were designed in the era before SS.
 
So Klipsch speakers need distortion to sound good?
AI
Tube 2nd order harmonics" is essentially a specific type of distortion, as it refers to the additional harmonic frequencies created by a tube amplifier that are exactly double the fundamental frequency (an octave higher), which is considered "2nd order" harmonic distortion; this type of distortion is often described as "musical" due to its pleasing sonic quality compared to other forms of distortion.

SS amps have always given me listening fatigue headaches. My Fisher tube amps never have and sound Blissful.

To each their own...
 
Well, I wouldn't make a general statement that KHorns need tubes, no question, based on experiences with SS receivers.
 
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What SS equipment have you found to work well with KHorns?

I've used a Sansui G9000DB with Cornwalls (a completely different beast in the low register) for about twenty years but didn't like it at all on Klipschorns. Could have been the room but it was very weird.

That said, I am -- now -- so "dialed in" to the Cornwall motif that other presentations sound unnatural in my ears. I would need a complete tonal reset, over time, to appreciate folded horn bass as it's too breathy for me, more ethereal than impactful. Of course, I've never been in a room designed around KHorns. Cornwalls, you can put just about anywhere.
 
I've used a Sansui G9000DB with Cornwalls (a completely different beast in the low register) for about twenty years but didn't like it at all on Klipschorns. Could have been the room but it was very weird.

That said, I am -- now -- so "dialed in" to the Cornwall motif that other presentations sound unnatural in my ears. I would need a complete tonal reset, over time, to appreciate folded horn bass as it's too breathy for me, more ethereal than impactful. Of course, I've never been in a room designed around KHorns. Cornwalls, you can put just about anywhere.
I think very highly of Cornwalls and, yes, it is a different beast. Struck me as very refined. Ran them with one of my Marantz units, a 2235, and they sounded great. Not enough to get me to buy them though. When I first heard the KHorns, the guy who was selling had a huge room with high ceilings. He was running them with a Marantz 2230 which, unlike the 2235, is cap coupled. He didn't have them in the corners so I couldn't get a sense of the bass. But the mids and highs were exquisite. That's what sold me. I assumed the bass would be great when properly set up.

Didn't know if they'd work in my home. My family room, where they would live, isn't as large and the ceilings aren't as high. So I knew there was risk. But they have not disappointed. Ran them here on my Marantz 2270 and was really happy. My wife, less so, but she didn't really say anything. Still, I could tell. That's what motivated me to get the Fisher. I would have gotten tube gear eventually but it pushed me to do it sooner. She didn't get it, thought I was doing it for myself. She's very kind and doesn't try to deny me anything, but it made no sense to her, especially when she found out I had paid $750 for the Fisher. Until she heard it. And then it all made sense.

The only downside is neither of us can go back to the 2270. Have to get the Fisher fixed.
 
I have class A, AB and D on the Klipsch I have around the house. Love all of them. That being said, there have been several SS amps I've had that I just didn't care for that have been permanently rotated out, never to return. I've also used tubes and sold them but purchased one that I haven't picked up yet and ordered another. Always willing to try new things and yes, I believe synergy is more important than topology.
 
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