Thinking of a DAC (Audioquest Dragonfly?) and computer audio

[audiodon]

Hi,
I've been a physical media guy up to this point, but I've been thinking that this winter I may start the transition to using the computer to play high rez files.
I have an iMAC that would need about an 18 foot cable from a DAC at the Mac.

What I'm thinking about is perhaps using some kind of third party software like Amarra to replace iTunes and run the output to a DAC, and then to RCA style stereo ins on my preamp.

My tastes run to the not too forward category and I had a Cambridge Audio Azur 840-C that I was going to use the DAC in, but it was too forward for my tastes.

Has anybody tried that new Audioquest Dragonfly DAC/headphone amp?
What about other DACs?
I'd like to go with the latest version of USB standard or firewire and am willing to pay real but not silly money for the right piece and software.

Can you help steer me towards what I need to learn?
Do you have experience to share?

 

[Permanent Waves]

Congrats on starting the transition, it is one fraught by much confusion and technical considerations (software, file format, etc.) and misinformation and focus on tweaks that, in the end, just don't really matter, and is very time consuming as well (ugh, ripping thousands of cd's to FLAC as I have and still do weekly as I get new cd's!), but in the end it is a very telenomic and pragmatic journey in that it pays off with unparalleled convenience imo (especially if you stream digital files to multiple systems).

Really there is way too much to begin to surmise here (but maybe others will try) so I can only point you to some sites that helped me years ago when I made the transition from cd to FLAC.


Computer audiophile (check out the "academy" section but keep in mind that this one tends to orient itself towards the higher ((price)) tier audiophile gear):

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/section/ca-academy-2/


Head-fi (yes this is a headphone oriented site but I probably learned just about everything I truly needed to know about "computer-fi" in this forum):

http://www.head-fi.org/f/46/computer-audio


You've probably seen this on the Audioquest site, but it's a good overview of many aspects of CBA (computer based audio) although it does contain some misinformation and is very iTunes oriented (winnow what is useful out of it):

http://www.audioquest.com/computer-audio/


As for DAC's (and cdp) I'm of the strong view that after a certain low level of price/quality they simply don't get any better, and, further, sound virtually, if not totally, indistinguishable from each other (yes I've heard "cheap" ones and the most expensive in A/B tests). So spend $200 to $500 on a well received DAC and you'll be set. In fact, spend even less ($150 assembled) and just use this one (the ODac), it sounds as good, or very close to it, as any I've ever heard at any price point and is completely no-nonsense:

http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=46

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/odac-released.html


Also, that DragonFly looks like trouble to me. Why? Because it is placed right on/out of the computer and so could pick up background noise from the computer (like an internal sound card does or can) and thus render that sought after "black" background not so black. It also will pick up heat from your computer (and it is so small in any case without much "breathing" room). Better, imo, to have a completely separated (and larger) DAC(box) placed away from your computer and connected via cables. But I could be totally wrong here.

Good luck, just read around a lot is my best advice. :thmbsp:

 

[NumbDiver]

The Dragonfly is $249, and as I'm sure you know, Gordon Rankin of Wavelength designed and had CarteBlanche with the component choices. Given what Art D. said about it in the latest Stereophile, I think it's a no-brainer (knowing its limitations).

If you move forward at some point in a different direction, or a more expensive dac; I'd venture to guess the Dragonfly will always pay you back at least 1/2 your investment. So at $125...Whad'ya waiting for?!?:thmbsp:

Hell, I'll give you $150 if you hate it (and even if you tell me you hate it). I'm not saying you can't do better, but at double the price for a Halide or ten-times the price for a Hilo, it's a great place to start. You may decide it's damn good and save yourself a few grand.

We're finally seeing some kick-ass, game-changing equipment at prices low enough that we can experiment with them. Very cool time to be into audio.:scratch2:

 

[audiodon]

Thanks Permanent_Waves.
Time to start my education. Thanks for the pointers.
NumbDiver,
Aside from this month's dragonfly review in Stereophile, The Absolute Sound came in today's mail and also covers it.
The thing is, it looks like a good christmas present request.
I could use it at home on the iMAC and take it to work and use it with my laptop to my Grado headphones.
Pretty attractive combination.

 

[NumbDiver]

Good call. I thinking of buying one just because it's $249 and designed by GR. A nice unit to have around and play with!

Luck:thmbsp:

 

[BmWr75]

.......it is a very telenomic.......

@PW - telenomic?? Really.....what does that even mean??

I happen to agree with all the words I understand.

 

[Permanent Waves]

Thanks Permanent_Waves.
Time to start my education. Thanks for the pointers.

Sure thing! It just takes time to orient oneself to all the aspects of the whole field. Take time (like a few weeks at least) before jumping into anything is another part of my best advice.

@PW - telenomic?? Really.....what does that even mean??

I happen to agree with all the words I understand.

Lol, actually I misspelled that one. It's teleonomic which is an esoteric way of saying, basically, "purposeful" (it stems from the important, but flawed, philosophic concept of "teleology" from, very roughly, the Greek roots of telos, “end” and logos, “science/reason”).

I just try to use such terms when I can (the precision and quality of our language is very important and fundamental to the precision, quality, and strength of the content of our thought) and assume others who aren't familiar which such sometimes arcane words will simply google them if they care to find out what they mean.

Nice to know you are in agreement with my views; have you heard the ODac (and/or O2 amp)? Basically for $300 you can get an amp/Dac combo that is just as good (or better) than anything you can get until you spend upwards of $1000 ime and view.

 

[BmWr75]

@PW - no, I have not heard the ODac or O2 amp. Have you? Would be interested to hear what you think.

 

[Permanent Waves]

@PW - no, I have not heard the ODac or O2 amp. Have you? Would be interested to hear what you think.

Yes! Read carefully what I said above (I know there is a lot of text, I write/type quickly and it just flows out...there it goes again! ) :

...In fact, spend even less ($150 assembled) and just use this one (the ODac), it sounds as good, or very close to it, as any I've ever heard at any price point and is completely no-nonsense:

http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=46

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/odac-released.html

Basically for $300 you can get an amp/Dac combo that is just as good (or better) than anything you can get until you spend upwards of $1000 ime and view.

So yes I've heard it. It was a local "meet" and we did some blind comparisons to other dacs and amps and the Odac/O2 was at least among the top ones in my and several others estimation, no matter what the price point. A friend of mine sold his Benchmark and bought the Odac in fact and is happier than ever. And I of course love the designers objective/no nonsense style. :thmbsp:


I will say that the Dragonfly sure looks convenient (fit-in-your-pocket dac/headphone amp combo), but I'm wary of its longevity, and it just looks too "gimmicky". Also, if it is getting pro reviews/endorsements that's another count against it imo. But whatever, it is probably fine, just maybe not the choice I'd make personally is all.

Lots of good DACs out there to choose from for sure. In the last 5 years, or even 2, they have really come down in price yet maintained quality. The "computer fi" revolution sure is a boon for those of us who like to use computers as servers.

 

[Urchinn]

Great review of it over at Stereophile Magazine. I was going to buy a similar device made by Halide...but I think this looks like a nice step-up from my miniplug-to-rca cable (which sounds just fine, by the way).

 

[crooner]

I got a Dragonfly two weeks ago from the local AQ dealer. Fantastic little device!
Very musical and drives my Sennheiser HD600's headphones with ease.

So nice that I sold my Schiitt Asgard/Bifrost combo!

 

[Permanent Waves]

I got a Dragonfly two weeks ago from the local AQ dealer. Fantastic little device!
Very musical and drives my Sennheiser HD600's headphones with ease.

So nice that I sold my Schiitt Asgard/Bifrost combo!

Wow, that's interesting to hear and impressive that it replaced your Schiitt combo.

Always vastly prefer user reviews and experiences over professional ones.

 

[1TUFSS]

I just got my hands on an ODAC. For $150 (including enclosure and shipping - $100 if you just want the board), it's hard to do better. USB, of course.

 

[crooner]

Wow, that's interesting to hear and impressive that it replaced your Schiitt combo.

Always vastly prefer user reviews and experiences over professional ones.

The Schiitt combo was nice, no doubt about it. Perhaps a little bit more spacious sounding. But it took way too much real estate in my small condo and with a 2 year old toddler, I couldn't take a chance. That Asgard runs class A and gets real hot. Plus all those wires...

The Dragonfly sounded musically satisfying to me, so the tradeoff was worth it.

 

[Permanent Waves]

I just got my hands on an ODAC. For $150 (including enclosure and shipping - $100 if you just want the board), it's hard to do better. USB, of course.

I totally concur. Actually it's hard to do better under a grand imo and even above that we are just talking small (perhaps imperceptible) advances.

The Schiitt combo was nice, no doubt about it. Perhaps a little bit more spacious sounding. But it took way too much real state in my small condo and with a 2 year old toddler, I couldn't take a chance. That Asgard runs class A and gets real hot. Plus all those wires...

The Dragonfly sounded musically satisfying to me, so the tradeoff was worth it.

Gotcha. The Dragonfly looks more like a "lifestyle choice" type of piece which is what I meant when I said it was "gimmicky". But that doesn't mean it's bad, just like those "gimmicky" PMP's or DAP's (portable media players and digital audio players) aren't bad either. And they can certainly fit particular circumstances (like yours) better than other gear.

I've heard all about Schiit and their quality control problems/running hot which has steered me away from them so far. I'd be surprised if the Dragonfly doesn't run hot though, or am I off?

 

[crooner]

The Dragonfly fits my needs perfectly. AQ's reputation and the fact that it was designed by Gordon Rankin of Wavelength Audio was the icing on the cake.

I was actively looking for this kind of device exactly one year ago and couldn't find anything like it. I ended up getting the Schiitt combo to be used with my Squeezebox Touch.

The sound quality was top notch, but I had to deal with a bunch of devices and wires. The beauty of the Dragonfly lies in its size and simplicity. Often simple is better, and this is particularly true in Audio.

The Asgard runs class A, so it's supposed to run hot. It's the nature of the beast.

There was a Southwest Technical Products (SWTPC) headphone amp in the 1970's that was similar in the sense that it ran in class A and became very hot in operation. Perhaps this was the inspiration for the Asgard.

The Dragonfly runs a tad warm, but not much considering the devices inside consume very little power.

I do plan to get the optional Dragontail adapter or another sort of USB extension pigtail cable since I am clumsy. I am afraid I will damage the thing if I bump into it. So far so good!

Gotcha. The Dragonfly looks more like a "lifestyle choice" type of piece which is what I meant when I said it was "gimmicky". But that doesn't mean it's bad, just like those "gimmicky" PMP's or DAP's (portable media players and digital audio players) aren't bad either. And they can certainly fit particular circumstances (like yours) better than other gear.

I've heard all about Schiit and their quality control problems/running hot which has steered me away from them so far. I'd be surprised if the Dragonfly doesn't run hot though, or am I off?

 

[Permanent Waves]

Thanks for the info. :thmbsp:

I'm not looking for a DAC or headphone amp but was just curious. I have several devices that run warm to hot, but I try to cool them with fans. What I heard about Schiitt though was that they had QC issues and ran insanely "fry egg on it" hot. That put me off from them, although I wasn't looking for a DAC or amp back then either.

Enjoy!

 

[crooner]

Thanks for the info. :thmbsp:

I'm not looking for a DAC or headphone amp but was just curious. I have several devices that run warm to hot, but I try to cool them with fans. What I heard about Schiitt though was that they had QC issues and ran insanely "fry egg on it" hot. That put me off from them, although I wasn't looking for a DAC or amp back then either.

Enjoy!

Yeah, I think the reliability issue they were having was with the Bifrost and some random clicking some units made.

The Asgard had issues with power on thumps and they fixed it with a relay or such.

The Dragonfly can be used to drive a preamp as well. I plan to connect it to my Marantz 7 once I get it out of storage. :thmbsp:

 

[audiodon]

Crooner,
That's what I'm looking for ... if it'll drive a tube preamp properly.
I'll be interested in that.

I am suspicious of giant killers that come out reasonably priced just before the holidays, so a real-time report . . . warts and all, will be appreciated.

I'd be driving Fisher integrated amps, receivers, possibly Sonic Frontiers preamp or Wyred-4-Sound preamps pushing Fisher or HK tube amps from probably 15 feet away.

 

[OldSch00l]

As a Bifrost owner I can attest to their quality, while I too read about various quality issues, I understand this has all been ironed out. I was a little surprised at the temperature that it runs at (warm to the touch), but based on the solid build quality I don't think that it is much to worry about. I can say that I was VERY impressed at just how solidly built the unit is, it is made from THICK aluminum and is deceptively heavy!

Regarding the "clicking" that the Bifrost does, this is a relay that opens the signal path when it encounters a change of bit/sampling rate on the input, they call it a "muting" relay. I understand this cuts down on output noise when changing modes.