• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Thorens TD 124

N

ncw.

New Member
Hi!
I recently acquired a Thorens TD 124. I've never had a turntable before and know very little about them. I was really excited when I got it hooked up and it started playing music. After about the third record, it randomly stopped spinning. I've looked around a little bit at other people's posts but I really have no idea where to begin. If you guys would be able to offer any advice I would really appreciate it!
6o0mqu.jpg
 
Register to hide this ad
Ok, so I took the lower platter off to see if I could find anything that was obviously wrong with it and I think a belt might have fallen off? Is this possible? That part circled in red spins when the turntable is turned on, but the belt seems to be below it (or above it, I'm not really sure where the belt is supposed to be). EDIT: After looking at pictures, it appears that the belt is above where it should be. The step pulley (green circle) seems to be too low to make contact with the idler wheel, and doesn't spin. Could the belt be the problem, and how would I go about fixing this? Thanks!

P.S. Sorry about the non-rotated photo, and my complete ignorance when it comes to turntable terms. (I'm updating them as I learn.)

ilcfas.jpg
 
Last edited:
Go to www.vinylengine.com, join up and then download the owners and service manuals - those will clue you in on how the belt should be positioned. Assuming the belt is intact, it does need to be in the correct position to run the intermediate flywheel that then tuns the idler wheel to the platter.

Before that, check the belt to see if its stretched or cracked. If it only fits loosely to the motor shaft and intermediate flywheel, then it should be replaced as it will likely fall off again.

Check the bearing well of the platter and spindle shaft, cleaning and lubing with very light machine oil will help it spin with much less resistance. Many many threads on this procedure and the TD124 series all over AK so some searching and reading will be mandatory.

That said, a very very nice acquisition. You have the very rare SME3012 12 inch arm on an extended armboard. That combo is pretty rare and increases the value of the whole group. With a nice headshell and cartridge, and a good cleaning and tune up, the turntable should play EXCELLENTLY!

I know you are itching to listen to it, I would be too. But be patient, learn about the table, ask a bunch of questions and we'll help you get it cleaned up and tuned up. Be prepared to spend some decent $$ for a genuine Thorens belt, here you do get what you pay for.

BTW, and forgive my manners, WELCOME TO AK!! :tresbon: And good luck with your tune up, you've already had Great luck with this table!

Regards,

Bart
 
Thanks Bart!
I actually had downloaded those manuals but only scanned them briefly. After going back and looking further, I found a part about the belt that I think is the problem. It says to stretch it to test for dryness, which I was hesitant to do, but I did a little bit. The belt seems to be in pretty good condition to me, but I'm certainly no expert. When I tried putting it back on between the motor pulley and the step pulley it went on pretty easily, but I don't have anything to reference it against so I'm not sure if this is normal. Is there any way of knowing for sure if it's too loose?
I just powered it up without the idler wheel in place and it seems to be working properly.

Another thing I'm wondering about is that small clear plastic circle that's taped down near the motor pulley. Is that serving any purpose right now, or should I remove it?

EDIT: I put the idler wheel on and there seems to be a problem, maybe multiple. One thing I noticed was that the idler wheel doesn't spin very easily, which I assume will be changed substantially with a good cleaning and lubrication. But a bigger problem seems to in the area between the step pulley and the idler wheel; the idler wheel makes contact well when switched to 78, but barely makes contact when switched to 45 and doesn't touch at all when set to 33 or 16. Is there a way to adjust this?
 
Last edited:
I'm not familiar with the clear plastic cap but if it isn't harming anything, leave it for now. If I was to guess, it may cover the bearing well when the spindle is out for cleaning. Others should come in by tomorrow to help.

As for the belt, it should fit snugly without binding yet not slip off easily when started, assuming everything else moves easily. thus the need to check all rotating parts and surfaces before any other issues can be addressed.

As for the idler, any adjustments should be noted in the service manual. I haven't worked on this particular table much so I can't help you there but if there is an adjustment, it probably should be done with a new idler wheel or tire. Did the seller advertise it as working or as-is? If the idler edge surface is quite flat and its pretty hard, it will likely need replacing. I don't know of anyone who provides just the tire section or a way to install just the tire, but that doesn't mean there isn't. Otherwise, search for idler wheel suppliers and recommended sources here on AK or at vinylengine forums, they'll be your best first pass info sources.

Oh, and one other thing, there possibly may be poor fit of the idler to the driven wheel if the platter isn't there, not really sure but something to check just in case.
 
Last edited:
I couldn't find much about the idler in the service manual, it basically said that if anything wasn't working properly, it should be replaced. When I put the platter on it didn't spin very willingly but it did spin. Is it possible that the belt fell off because of the resistance provided by the idler wheel? It doesn't spin well at all. I actually got it for free, we weren't sure if it was working or not but it seems like it was definitely worth it! (From what I've read.) Anyway, the idler wheel in general doesn't seem to be that hard, it can flex and I don't see any cracks.

It seems like the next step should probably be cleaning and lubricating everything that needs cleaning and lubrication! Since I don't have any oil, I have a few questions about the tonearm that I'd be really grateful to get some help with. It's a Shure SME 3012. It does have a headshell (?) and cartridge and needle, I don't know what any of them are but I'll attach some pictures of them. One question that I have is with the balance; it is extremely back-heavy. There is no way to get it to stay down except for adding weight on top of the headshell. Am I missing a weight, or is there an adjustment to fix this? The arm lift lever doesn't seem to work, it worked with one record but not with another (presumably thicker) record. Thanks again!

EDIT: I do have an anti-skate weight. The one that came with the arm lost the string so I bought a new one (I still have the old one as well). Also, Is there supposed to be a plug for the hole in the weight on the right side? There's a little metal cylinder in the hole, but it falls out if the weight turns upside down. That's why the blue tape is there.

IMG_0108.jpg

IMG_0111.jpg

IMG_0110.jpg
 
Last edited:
ncw. said:
I couldn't find much about the idler in the service manual, it basically said that if anything wasn't working properly, it should be replaced. When I put the platter on it didn't spin very willingly but it did spin. Is it possible that the belt fell off because of the resistance provided by the idler wheel? It doesn't spin well at all. I actually got it for free, we weren't sure if it was working or not but it seems like it was definitely worth it! (From what I've read.) Anyway, the idler wheel in general doesn't seem to be that hard, it can flex and I don't see any cracks.

It seems like the next step should probably be cleaning and lubricating everything that needs cleaning and lubrication! Since I don't have any oil, I have a few questions about the tonearm that I'd be really grateful to get some help with. It's a Shure SME 3012. It does have a headshell (?) and cartridge and needle, I don't know what any of them are but I'll attach some pictures of them. One question that I have is with the balance; it is extremely back-heavy. There is no way to get it to stay down except for adding weight on top of the headshell. Am I missing a weight, or is there an adjustment to fix this? The arm lift lever doesn't seem to work, it worked with one record but not with another (presumably thicker) record. Thanks again!

EDIT: I do have an anti-skate weight. The one that came with the arm lost the string so I bought a new one (I still have the old one as well). Also, Is there supposed to be a plug for the hole in the weight on the right side? There's a little metal cylinder in the hole, but it falls out if the weight turns upside down. That's why the blue tape is there.

View attachment 255642

View attachment 255644

View attachment 255643
Click to expand...

For balancing, download the SME3012 english manual here:
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/sme/3012.shtml

Follow the instructions for Arm/headshell set up, then balance using the technique on page 9 of the pdf document, using Fig. 2 as your parts guide. Be sure to follow the directions regarding the rider weight (on the lateral L shaped arm) That needs to be set to the 0 mark and then the arm is balanced with the larger balance weight, then the rider weight is used to provide the downforce weight for the cartridge.

The headshell is the black perforated shell that screws into the arm tube. Do not overtighten the collet that holds the shell to the tube. The cartridge is the plastic or metal body that bolts into the headshell and has 4 pins which are wired to the shell, providing left and right pos and neg signal. The stylus is enclosed in the removable (for some) housing that slides into the front or bottom of the cartridge body, depending on design. From your photo, you have a genuine SME removable headshell, quite nice. I don't recognize the cartridge however, so can't help you with that. Be sure to look carefully at the stylus (a pointy diamond at the end of the "cantilever" (shaft sticking down at an angle, the diamond is actually elliptical in shape, broad side forward like this ()--> front). The stylus should still have some shape to it under magnification, if not, it may be worn and need replacing if a stylus is available, otherwise, a new cartridge should be installed.

The lift mechanism may be damped or require adjustment, for now just use your hand carefully until you read up on the SME manual for adjustments.

Heh, you got a heckuva deal!
 
Regards the anti-skate weight and the blue covered hole, that I think is actually the rider weight and should have a small set screw in it. The cylinder is part of a click-stop type set up so should also have some tiny spring inside, or maybe just enough snugging with the set screw to hold in place yet move over the graduated marks on the way arm.

This is my guess at first glance.
 
Bart, thanks a ton! I really appreciate it. I'm looking at the manual and I'll do my best to set it up properly. I agree with you about the screw, it seems other ones all have something in that place. I'll keep you posted on how everything works once I lubricate the idler wheel and any other parts that the service manual says should be oiled. And I'm sure I'll have more questions.
Any other advice is greatly appreciated!

Edit: After trying to get the tonearm to balance for a while, I am still having trouble. The only way to keep the arm from leaning backwards is to have both the balance weight and the end cap as far forward as possible, and to slide the rider weight so far forward that it's hanging off of the way rod a little bit. Oh, and also I know you said very light machine oil works well for lubricating, is there any type in particular that is recommended? I'll search around a bit before I try anything so that I don't do anything stupid.
IMG_0114.jpg

IMG_0113.jpg
 
Last edited:
OK, I think I know the problem now. The tonearm is the model SME3012, series II, which has a different appearing weight. The balance weight on yours looks like the Series I, long and cylindrical. The usual weight may be a bit less long and wider in diameter. But if that is what came with the table, then you've got to use it for now. The longer tubular weight is optimized for heavier headshells, the shell you have is the lighter weight shell used in the S2 version, not to be confused with the series II.

What is different is the rider weight. You actually may be ablle to split in half, according to the Series II manual. Download from the same site as above, download the Identify tonearm manual to see the differences and the weights drawings. Note the lift chamber and clip on the front tube near the pivot which Identifies it as a Series II.

Anyway, the rider weight should be split in half and then the back half with the hole and shaft are situated at the back of the way rod. With a lightweight shell and cartridge, maybe that is enough to get balance. If not, you'll have to look for the lighter balance weight.

Do you have a shot of the underside of the tonearm?
 
Looks like you are getting advice from the right guy. :thmbsp:

Just one note. For a first table you really could not have done any better. That setup is what many if not most folks around here would be satisfied with forever. Not much need to go anywhere else once it is properly setup.

I say this because it might seem like it is a bit of a hassle to get it set up, but in the end it will be way worth it. Don't give up and take your time. Congrats on a great table. :banana: :yes:
 
Welcome to AK "ncw."
You got yourself a very nice TT, also a very expensive TT
I've a Thorens, although some part are similar, yours is more unique than the rest of them, with maybe the exception of the 134 and the 135, their little sisters.

This TT is worth your time and effort to put it apart and go over everything, cleaning lubing, repairing, and if need be, sending your wheel to be redone, new rubber etc... Also, the motor should have the once over to make sure it is properly lubed and functioning properly.
There are people in USA and in Europe that specialize on refurbishing this TT, and it will be worth your time, effort and the money spent to do it properly.
Luckily also, there are people on AK and Vinyl engine (probably the same people) that know a whole lot more than me about this particular TT, maybe because they own one.

You are very lucky to own one of these, very lucky indeed.:thmbsp::thmbsp::thmbsp:

For now, here is a site that you should read, if you did'nt do it already.

www.soundfountain.com/amb/td124page.html

The type of oil to put on the shat, spindle and bearing, is a light machine oil, sewing machine oil, single grade. Do not put any 3 in one oil, it has additive that will gum up over time.
There are other type of oil that could also fit.
 
HI,
What mech986 said is basically right. I have never played with the 12" arm but I owned a 3009 which is a 9" arm. It's lighter. The two arms are basically the same except for the counter weights which must be different because of the added weight of the 12" arm due to its length.

You must have an early version that used heavier head shells and, possibly, heavier cartridges. Thus, it needed larger counter weights for balance. With newer, better, and lighter head shells and cartridges, you will need a different and lighter counterweight. On my 3009 the main counter weight was actually split into two pieces and one could be removed if needed.

It looks like yours is one piece so you don't have that option. I have seen web sites that have a selection of counter weights but I can't locate them. Someone else will know where to get the parts you need. Fear not, you will get this to work and have a wonderful combination.

Typically, you should replace the idler and belt. These are available. Lubricate everything and you will be off with a very fine turntable and arm.

Question for you: does your bubble level have liquid in it? I have seen many TD124's where the level is empty. Don't know why. I'm sort of taking a survey.

Sparky
 
Thanks for all the info, I looked at the SME arm identification pdf and mine is definitely a series II (I do have the split rider weight, but the balance weight seems to be different like Bart said). I tried taking the balance weight off and just having the rider weight all the way back and it is very close to being balanced. It tips down on the needle side though, so I'm not exactly sure how to tell if it is too much or an acceptable amount. Is there any way of knowing?
Bart- I'm not really sure what part of the tonearm I should take pictures of but I can attach a couple photos that hopefully capture what you're looking for.
Sparky- The bubble level does have liquid in it.
I was also wondering about the needle and cartridge. Do you guys think that these will be ok to use? I don't really know anything about them.
I'm thinking of picking up some sewing machine oil later today, so hopefully I'll be able to get everything spinning smoothly!
IMG_0118.jpg

IMG_0119.jpg
 
Looking at the picture you provided, it looks like the cart is a Stanton 500. Does it have this written in black on either side? It is a good cart. I have one. I'm not sure about the stylus (needle). I'm also not sure how this matches with an SME arm/Thorens TD 124. If you do decide to keep the cart, I would get a new stylus for it. I have a D71EE on mine. Good luck! :thmbsp:
 
Don't overlook the possibility of adding weight to the cartridge side of the tone arm as a way to balance it temporarily using the counterweight you have. A length of solder twisted around the arm near the headshell, for instance. Use as little extra weight as you can. And get a stylus force gauge (they're $10 - $20) so you can read the tracking force directly.

If you need a string to connect to the anti-skating weight, a human hair works well (see wife). Most monofilament is just a little stiff.

Finally, let me echo the other commenters: welcome to AK, and you got a very nice deal!
 
It looks like you made the mistake of taking the platter off the spindle. I did the same when I got mine from my grandmothers after many years of sitting unused. You should have just pulled up on the platter spindle and all.


As for the idler not engaging. Just move the control back and forth to loosen it back up. I was told to do it 100 times and like magic on the 99th time it started to engage.

Who knows what that plastic thing is taped to it. Just take it off.

Look at the vinylengine site for the rebuild guides. The motor felt and bushing probably need a job. It is not very hard to do.


Enjoy it. You have a great turntable.
 
Hey guys,
I got the turntable spinning tonight! I didn't do very much, just oiled the motor, step pulley and spindle. :music:
Unfortunately, the speed seems to be pretty unstable. I haven't been able to get the strobe to stay steady and I don't think that it's getting up to the proper speed, even when I use the fine speed adjustment. Does this mean a motor rebuild? Is there anything that I should try prior to this?

ranf1970 - I can't see any writing on the cartridge, it's just gold all around.

Edit: The belt came off again, could that be part of the speed problem?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom