• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Thorens TD125mkII SME 3009 S2 Improved Issues

Stereofro

Stereofro

Member
Hi everyone. I have a TD125 mkII with a SME 3009 S2 improved. I have not used this table in years. I put a Ortofon 2M on the removable head shell just to get the ball rolling and it sounds bad. I am just wondering where to start. It gets volume but has a static distortion. It only occurs when it is on the record. Cartridge is new and the record is clean. The head shell is not original but is Thorens raised. I also have a Thorens flat. I did Deox the head shell. It has the original SME RCA’s which I also deoxed. What about the SME arm connection itself? It is mainly just slid on. No screws to hold it on. Any ideas welcomed!
 
Register to hide this ad
The arm connection should slide onto the pins but there is one bolt on the end opposite the ground (larger) connection.

I would go back over the entire setup of the arm/cartridge combo and also verify the phono input is correct.

I don't understand the static distortion, but maybe a very low tracking force could sound like that.

If you don't have the manuals they are available on vinylengine, sign up and download.
 
Stereofro said:
Hi everyone. I have a TD125 mkII with a SME 3009 S2 improved. I have not used this table in years. I put a Ortofon 2M on the removable head shell just to get the ball rolling and it sounds bad. I am just wondering where to start. It gets volume but has a static distortion. It only occurs when it is on the record. Cartridge is new and the record is clean. The head shell is not original but is Thorens raised. I also have a Thorens flat. I did Deox the head shell. It has the original SME RCA’s which I also deoxed. What about the SME arm connection itself? It is mainly just slid on. No screws to hold it on. Any ideas welcomed!
Click to expand...
I hope you're not using Thorens (type) head-shells on the SME 3009 S2 improved arm. :idea:

Can you post a pic of the head-shell(s)?
 
Stereofro said:
Hi everyone. I have a TD125 mkII with a SME 3009 S2 improved. I have not used this table in years. I put a Ortofon 2M on the removable head shell just to get the ball rolling and it sounds bad. I am just wondering where to start. It gets volume but has a static distortion. It only occurs when it is on the record. Cartridge is new and the record is clean. The head shell is not original but is Thorens raised. I also have a Thorens flat. I did Deox the head shell. It has the original SME RCA’s which I also deoxed. What about the SME arm connection itself? It is mainly just slid on. No screws to hold it on. Any ideas welcomed!
Click to expand...

What color of Ortofon 2 M ? The 'Red' is rarely appreciated for what it's worth. And the prices of the "Blue", "Black" and "Bronze" reflects that.

The compliance match with this tonearm aiming for slightly "higher" compliant cartridges shouldn't be that bad sounding I believe.

Did you you all the pre required adjustments as well for it ? VTA, VTF, AS, rider weight, overhang, alignement...

Static distortions like "crackles" in highs, or a continuous "fuzziness" to the sound only with the stylus on the record even at stand still ?

Headshell but which ? I did purchase a cheap brand new thin aluminum headshell for a friend and it is terrible we discovered. Only very high compliant cartridges should work on such headshells.

Thorens raised what is that ? And what is Thorens flat headshell ? Sorry but I have no idea what Thorens headshells but those for the TP models of tonearms.

The 4 pins original SME tonearm connectors are tricky to stay in place. especially when incomplete... Like mine is/was. But with an elastic band, it does the trick.
 
Blue Shadow said:
The arm connection should slide onto the pins but there is one bolt on the end opposite the ground (larger) connection.

I would go back over the entire setup of the arm/cartridge combo and also verify the phono input is correct.

I don't understand the static distortion, but maybe a very low tracking force could sound like that.

If you don't have the manuals they are available on vinylengine, sign up and download.
Click to expand...
Hi! I don’t have a bolt holding on my connector opposite the ground. There is a small screw but it is not long enough to go through both plates. It goes under the second plate to hold the bottom plate down.
 
timmy.timmy said:
What color of Ortofon 2 M ? The 'Red' is rarely appreciated for what it's worth. And the prices of the "Blue", "Black" and "Bronze" reflects that.

The compliance match with this tonearm aiming for slightly "higher" compliant cartridges shouldn't be that bad sounding I believe.

Did you you all the pre required adjustments as well for it ? VTA, VTF, AS, rider weight, overhang, alignement...

Static distortions like "crackles" in highs, or a continuous "fuzziness" to the sound only with the stylus on the record even at stand still ?

Headshell but which ? I did purchase a cheap brand new thin aluminum headshell for a friend and it is terrible we discovered. Only very high compliant cartridges should work on such headshells.

Thorens raised what is that ? And what is Thorens flat headshell ? Sorry but I have no idea what Thorens headshells but those for the TP models of tonearms.

The 4 pins original SME tonearm connectors are tricky to stay in place. especially when incomplete... Like mine is/was. But with an elastic band, it does the trick.
Click to expand...
Hi! It is the red. It sounds like the distortion you get from a connection. I don’t think it is evident from a stand still. It is a stock raised logo SME head shell. Not sure what any of those “pre required” adjustments are except alignment. I am used to my VPI.
 
The SME arm is the most documented arm in the world. Roll over to vinylengine get the manual and go through the setup, tracking force and Antiskate.
 
Stereofro said:
Hi! It is the red. It sounds like the distortion you get from a connection. I don’t think it is evident from a stand still. It is a stock raised logo SME head shell. Not sure what any of those “pre required” adjustments are except alignment. I am used to my VPI.
Click to expand...
As 'Blue 'Shadow' inclined you to do; register yourself on 'vinyl engine', first post 'present yourself' and then access it all, including their database and 'download' your tonearm users manual to learn how to set your VTA 'vertical tracking angle', then VTF 'vertical tracking force', AS 'anti-skate' and it's other side neighbor the rider-weight. Evidently check the azimuth of your cartridge as well. Then let us know... Good Luck !
 
If you don't have the rubber grommets on the mounting plate, you will likely need to add one or two shims between the mounting plate and armboard in order to get the VTA correct. I maxxed out the adjustment on my 3009 and it wasn't enough without shimming. I wouldn't expect this to be the answer to the problem you are facing, but I hope it helps you get things set up and sounding good.
 
Pics of the 3009 wiring connections to the main harness to the amp.
Here is the pic of the screening can covering the fine wires that go to the tonearm with the main harness socket bolted to the unit. This can is held in place with a very small screw on the other side that bolts to the metal support, called an angle bracket that also holds the black plastic socket. This socket is held by the one bolt that holds the ground wiring male connector, the screw shown on the left. The other end of this plastic socket has a hole in it that will also get a bolt.
3009 Wiring Connection.jpg

The triangular main harness connector plugs into the tonearm socket above in only one way since there are three different size connections. The left connector above receives a clip from the main harness and the 4 female connections receive a pin. Below is the pic from the right end of the above showing the bolt (6BA) that holds the wiring harness to the tonearm.

3009 Wiring Connection Bolted End.jpg

Of course, some have changed the connector to a couple RCA plugs, as SME did in later years, but if you have a stock SME 3009 of the vintage that uses this connector that is how I believe it is held in place.
 
Blue Shadow said:
Pics of the 3009 wiring connections to the main harness to the amp.
Here is the pic of the screening can covering the fine wires that go to the tonearm with the main harness socket bolted to the unit. This can is held in place with a very small screw on the other side that bolts to the metal support, called an angle bracket that also holds the black plastic socket. This socket is held by the one bolt that holds the ground wiring male connector, the screw shown on the left. The other end of this plastic socket has a hole in it that will also get a bolt.
View attachment 1456954

The triangular main harness connector plugs into the tonearm socket above in only one way since there are three different size connections. The left connector above receives a clip from the main harness and the 4 female connections receive a pin. Below is the pic from the right end of the above showing the bolt (6BA) that holds the wiring harness to the tonearm.

View attachment 1456959

Of course, some have changed the connector to a couple RCA plugs, as SME did in later years, but if you have a stock SME 3009 of the vintage that uses this connector that is how I believe it is held in place.
Click to expand...
Strange, some people have a long bolt and some do not. Mine, as well as many others have the exact same type of bolt only shorter and not long enough to go through both plates. Where can I get a longer bolt. I would prefer not to zip tie it like many others are doing.
 
vinylaudio said:
If you don't have the rubber grommets on the mounting plate, you will likely need to add one or two shims between the mounting plate and armboard in order to get the VTA correct. I maxxed out the adjustment on my 3009 and it wasn't enough without shimming. I wouldn't expect this to be the answer to the problem you are facing, but I hope it helps you get things set up and sounding good.
Click to expand...
Where can I get the grommets? Mine looks flush! :/
 
grommets from smetonearms.com in the parts section.
I got the bolts, this one is not stock, from ebay UK, but they were shipped from France and were way too long but I cut one down. The original is around here somewhere but I don't know if it is in one of the 20 drawers of bolts or on the floor hiding, lost years ago.
 
vinylaudio said:
If you don't have the rubber grommets on the mounting plate, you will likely need to add one or two shims between the mounting plate and armboard in order to get the VTA correct. I maxxed out the adjustment on my 3009 and it wasn't enough without shimming. I wouldn't expect this to be the answer to the problem you are facing, but I hope it helps you get things set up and sounding good.
Click to expand...

Just to be sure, you're referring to the 'mounting plate' for the 'bed plate' right ? The plate onto which the SME tonearm slides onto backward and forward ? If so, the "original" grommets to be fitted on the screw holes to fix it the the 'arm board' are so thin that they just won't add any height to the tonearm that it won't challenge the VTA with or without.

Now there are thicker SME 'bed plates' sold out there to compensate such platter heights if ever. Your platter must have been set rather "high" to have to add shims between your 'arm board' and 'bed plate' !!! In my case I've enhanced my platter height of 8 mm through my "lasagna" of matts and had to compensate the VTA that was hopefully enough in my case.
 
timmy.timmy said:
Just to be sure, you're referring to the 'mounting plate' for the 'bed plate' right ?
Click to expand...
Correct. I just checked the SME manual and that's what they call it.

I have a standard thickness Series 2 Improved (fixed headshell) on a Thorens TD125 with an original armboard. Without the grommets and VTA adjustment set to full height, I wasn't able to get the VTA angle on the cartridge set correctly, so it sounded a bit dull. Cartridge is an AT ART-9, so that may have been part of it. I just put two 1mm thick stainless steel shims between the bedplate and armboard and this was enough to allow me to lower the VTA adjustment enough to get it set on 180gm records. Word around the campfire is that eliminating the grommets gives better bass. I agree with this, as well. My setup has better bass without the grommets. I don't get any rumble on my TT, so the grommets seem unnecessary in my case.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom