Thorens TD160 paired with Heed Orbit 1

[Vanvim0207]

Hi this is Giacomo, from Italy: 220Volt country .
I have been lucky enough as a friend of mine gave me a Heed Orbit 1 power supply unit (PSU) for turntables with 110V motor for free. Let's it's a gift.
The Orbit 1 is different from its brother Orbit 2, as Orbit 2 is a plug-and-play tool, whilst Orbit 1 needs a modification to the turntable internal circuitry to be paired with 110V motor turntables.
I am lucky ownwer of a Thorens TD160 of very early 70's supplied with a 110V motor. I love it and it works very well. But you know, I want to make the upgrade and pairing it with the external PSU by Heed. She is there looking at me saying "why not?".
It seems that my tt can be paired with the Orbit 1, as on the Heed web site it is stated that it fits fine with any 110V motors.
My question is: anyone out there experienced with the needed mod? I read somewhere in the web that the phase shifter capacitor should be removed from the Thorens internal circuit, but I am not sure about it. Furthermore I want to avoid any potential risk to destroy my motor which still performs very well.
I asked directly to Heed in Hungary, but they said that do not know anything about Thorens circuit.
In the Orbit 1 box I found some instruction to pair the PSU to Rega 110V tt, namely P2, P3 and P25. But these instructions do not fit to my needs.
I am pretty sure that if it works for 110V Rega tt why it shouldn't with my Thorens? Anyone can help or provide usefull informtion?
I scanned the web several times and I only heard of rumors, but nothing for sure that would worth the risk to try the mod!
Please help. Thanks for all who will provide any assistance.

 

[gadget73]

If it would make your life easier, its very easy to convert a Thorens from 110 to 220v operation. The motors are the same, they simply added a resistor to drop the voltage.



Its just a 5.6k resistor added to change the voltage.


Can you post the Rega instructions? I don't know them specifically but I think they use a similar motor arrangement to the Thorens so its probably very similar.

 

[Vanvim0207]

Here the instruction for Rega P2, 3, and 25 mod

 

[Vanvim0207]

If it would make your life easier, its very easy to convert a Thorens from 110 to 220v operation. The motors are the same, they simply added a resistor to drop the voltage.

View attachment 3344404

Its just a 5.6k resistor added to change the voltage.


Can you post the Rega instructions? I don't know them specifically but I think they use a similar motor arrangement to the Thorens so its probably very similar.

I posted Rega circuits mod...
I pretty know well this convertion from 220 to 110 V mains.
My question is bit different, as it is related to how to interface the Heed Orbit 1 PSU to Thorens. Yes, the PSU is substantially a converter from 220 to 110V so the outcoming voltage i 110, hence is pretty resonable that a part of the mod is close to what you are sharing from Thorens manual. I do have Thorens manual and I do know well this picture and this convertion to 110.
My concern is related to other mods to the internal circuitry, as Iread that the phase shifter should be removed, maybe the phase shifter has its own phase shifter so the one that is already in the TD160 circuit must be removed?
I think that someone who had intefaced Orbit1 to TD160 should reply to this question or maybe someone else who is pretty aware of how the two systems are made and work...

 

[Vanvim0207]

I posted Rega circuits mod...
I pretty know well this convertion from 220 to 110 V mains.
My question is bit different, as it is related to how to interface the Heed Orbit 1 PSU to Thorens. Yes, the PSU is substantially a converter from 220 to 110V so the outcoming voltage i 110, hence is pretty resonable that a part of the mod is close to what you are sharing from Thorens manual. I do have Thorens manual and I do know well this picture and this convertion to 110.
My concern is related to other mods to the internal circuitry, as Iread that the phase shifter should be removed, maybe the phase shifter has its own phase shifter so the one that is already in the TD160 circuit must be removed?
I think that someone who had intefaced Orbit1 to TD160 should reply to this question or maybe someone else who is pretty aware of how the two systems are made and work...

I meant maybe the Heed Obit 1 PSU has its own internal phase shifter so the Thorens circuit shifter is not anymore needed?

 

[gadget73]

ok looking at the Rega stuff, what it looks like they have you do is bypass a single capacitor. Some research tells me Rega uses a cap to drop the voltage where Thorens uses a resistor. Essentially they are just making it a 110v input. It keeps the second cap to produce the phase shift

Pretty sure you can simply connect the Thorens directly to this power supply with no mods to the Thorens. The phase shift cap has to remain or it will not work.

 

[Vanvim0207]

Mmmmm?
Thanks for yout thoughts!
I must tell you that everywhere it is stated, including on the Heed web-site, that for pairing Orbit1 with 110V motors a mod on the tt circuit is needed.
Indeed, my tt has a 110V motor but the circuit is for 220V mains. So, as the Orbit1 output voltage is 110V, the voltage drop-down resistor should at least be bypassed, I think? Furthermore, my readings suggest to remove the phase shifter. But this is controvertial, of course. But If this was true, I assume there is a phase shifter already installed into the Heed Orbit PSU?
I don't know. I wrote yesterday to Heed asking them to make clear if a phase shifter is installed in the Orbit1.

As I do not have a clear view, I am thinking of moving forward step by step as follows?
- step 1: bypassing the drop-down voltage resistor,
- step 2: checking if the tt motor is spinning properly,
- step 3:. in case it does not work after step 2 I could remove the phase shifter cap.
If I am lucky enough this procedure will work (?).

My real concern is what if I plug the PSU to my tt? Can it damage my tt motor for the voltage difference? Can you respond to this? Maybe it is a stupid concern as the output voltage of the PSU is 110V, same voltage as for the motor, furthermore the voltage drop-down resistor will further reduce the voltage, so maybe no risks? Maybe the motor won't simply work...? What do you think about my 3-step idea outlined above? Do you see any risk?

 

[gadget73]

I believe that is correct. Bypass the resistor, feed it 110v and it should work just fine. Just have to confirm the output voltage of the Heed is in fact 110v. If you want to play it safe, try it with the resistor in. It may not start without help at half voltage but it won't burn up.

Unless there are 3 wires coming out of the Heed, you can't remove the phase shift cap. To do that you'd have to have a neutral, a hot, and a phase-shifted hot. If its only 2 wires the cap is doing the shifting work.

 

[Vanvim0207]

I believe that is correct. Bypass the resistor, feed it 110v and it should work just fine. Just have to confirm the output voltage of the Heed is in fact 110v. If you want to play it safe, try it with the resistor in. It may not start without help at half voltage but it won't burn up.

Unless there are 3 wires coming out of the Heed, you can't remove the phase shift cap. To do that you'd have to have a neutral, a hot, and a phase-shifted hot. If its only 2 wires the cap is doing the shifting work.

This is the reply to my question directly by Heed to my question whether their PSU is equipped with an internal phase shifter: "No, Orbit does not have a phase-shifting capacitor. For model 1 we
provide a small external PCB with a 220nF capacitor.
But that is not the main problem with other turntables. It's the power.
As far as I know, the Thorens turntables have a much more powerful motor
than the Promotec and the Orbit can no longer drive it. At first it may
seem to work because these motors can rotate over a wide range of
voltage and power. But the distortion will be high and after a while the
Orbit will burn out. The maximum useful power that can be extracted from
the Orbit is 2-2.5W.".
So apparently they are opening a new chapter regarding the motor power. I'll check as soon as I have time what's my motor power. As far as I know it shoud be 3W....
What's your thought? It's getting always more complicated, isn't it?

 

[gadget73]

Just doing some simple Ohms Law stuff, 110 volts / 5600 ohms = 20ma. 20ma * 110 volts = 2.2 watts so it seems like it should be in the range. I don't know what Thorens officially specifies for motor power rating and I have never made any effort to measure it. Mine just runs right off the mains.

 

[Vanvim0207]

Wow! Great, man! I have been not applying Ohm Law for dozens of years now! I could not even remeber it...
You are great and again this is again valuable fot my issue.
I read some old Thorens manual and it seems that the motor is 5W. In any case as I told you at the first convenience I will open my tt again and check if the motor specs are confirmed. As you are an expert in electonics (at least compared to me...), I am asking again your view. Let's assume Thorens motor is a a 5W, can it work properly in a circuit of 2.2W without any damages?

 

[gadget73]

If the power supply can only give 2.2 watts, a 5 watt motor is probably going to damage the supply.

 

[Vanvim0207]

If the power supply can only give 2.2 watts, a 5 watt motor is probably going to damage the supply.

That is what the Heed guy stated, even though he does not know the Thorens motor. I must open the tt and check the motor specs, hence...I will let you know. Thanks a lot for now

 

[gadget73]

Let us know what you find out

 

[Vanvim0207]

I will

 

[Vanvim0207]

Hi there. As I promised I am here again. Finally I succeded! After a consultation via email with 2 European champions of vintage turntables, Simone Lucchetti from Audiosilente and Jaap Pees from Hanze HiFi, it was clear tonme that the only needed mod to the circuit of Thorens TD160 was bypassing the 5600Ohm resistor responsible for the voltage decrease from 220V of the Italian main to 110V needed for the motor. And that is it! Very simple and superfast! It was the first mod I thought of, and it was the one.
Now the external Heed PSU is doing the job and the plate is spinning perfectly with reduced wow and flutter. Less distortion which I measured. It gained in a more focussed scene, more punchy bass and instruments are more distinct and clear. A good improvement! Thanks gadget73 for your effort and suggestion. It was a useful speculation...

 

[gadget73]

Good deal, glad you got it figured out.