Thoughts on Polk RTi-A9's
- Thread starter Snappahead
- Start date
I will certainly give them a listen before I pull the trigger. The thing is, I won't buy anything without listening first. Been there, done that.
TomB19
Active Member
I bought the RTI A9 without listening first and was greatly disappointed for the first year and a half. I've recently been working with these speakers through problems with room acoustics and a receiver issue I didn't realize I had.
Now that I've eliminated the other problems, these speakers have really come alive. I'm loving them. If I had known they were capable of this level of sound quality, I wouldn't have put up with the poor sound all this time but I wrote them off as "box store speakers" after being disappointed.
My equipment (Note: no preamp):
Topping D30
Yamaha MX-600
Polk RTi A9
For me, recent repairs to other parts of the system is like having a new set of speakers. The last few days, I can't wait to come home and listen.
The Polk RTi A9 is an extremely versatile speaker: Home theater, delicate music, dynamic music, rock.... I love these things.
PS - The cherry finish is a treat. Beautiful.
Now that I've eliminated the other problems, these speakers have really come alive. I'm loving them. If I had known they were capable of this level of sound quality, I wouldn't have put up with the poor sound all this time but I wrote them off as "box store speakers" after being disappointed.
My equipment (Note: no preamp):
Topping D30
Yamaha MX-600
Polk RTi A9
For me, recent repairs to other parts of the system is like having a new set of speakers. The last few days, I can't wait to come home and listen.
The Polk RTi A9 is an extremely versatile speaker: Home theater, delicate music, dynamic music, rock.... I love these things.
PS - The cherry finish is a treat. Beautiful.
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Tom-
I appreciate your input. From everything I've read, there is some degree of break in required for these speakers. Timeframes vary depending on whom you talk to. Perhaps that's something you experienced. I went and listened to the RTi-A7's on Saturday. The environment was not good to begin with at the audio store which left me disappointed. Basically the speakers got lost and sounded tinny and brittle. What I did decide is if I pull the trigger it will be the larger version. I plan on working on the room acoustics first then if I can't get my current speakers to where I'm happy I will make the change.
Thanks for your comments.
Tom
TomB19
Active Member
Snappahead, I hope you've read this thread:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....om-monitor-70-series-ii.843568/#post-12173375
62caddy has some good input on the speakers, plus, he also has both the A7 and A9 model. I have only the A9 and the little A3. Of particularly interest is 62caddy's comment the A7 are a lot easier to drive than the A9.
I told you what I know. Here's what I speculate.
A lot of people have a really bad experience with the RTi A9. So much so, I've seen them in black recently for $500/pr used (I wish I had gone that route but mine are Cherry and I paid $900 CAD for a new pair 2 years ago... they occasionally go on sale for less than half price.).
I think the A9 present a complex load. I've also found the A9 are difficult to set up well. If you need your speakers pressed against the wall, these may not be the speakers for you. With a good amp and some setup time, they will do amazing things.
In my case, we had so much bass loaded in the corners, it was pretty gross. There were several holes in the bass, no doubt from standing nodes. I ended up putting body pillows in the corners to wonderful effect. I'm not interested in committing to a major permanent sound absorption program so the pillows are ideal.
From there, it took some doing to find the correct position for the listening chairs.
Now that it's set up, I listen with the DAC feeding directly into an amplifier (no pre, no tone, no room compensation) and listening has become a wonderful emotional experience.
I have several pair of speakers and they all had the same problems before the changes. The majority of my problems were room related.
My A9s drive nicely with the following amplifiers:
Kenwood KA-7300 (65WPC)
Denon AVR-3806 (Don't recall the power... 100, or so)
Yamaha MX-600
Yamaha MX-1000
Hafler Pro5000
I haven't tried any smaller amplifiers, although I have several small classics (40~60WPC that might be found at garage sales). I'd guess the Denon is the lowest quality amp of the listed lot, in terms of handling a complex load.
With serious power, the A9 brings thunder. I've heard plenty of comments the A9 are bright. I don't find this to be the case but they are noticeably brighter with the Kenwood than the Hafler (and enjoyable with either). I've never felt the need to tweek the upper range on a good recording and I haven't listened to any bad recordings, yet. I suspect the bright comments are coming from people who don't have their acoustics sorted and aren't getting the full bass program. Either that, or they don't have enough power to keep the bass goingAny full range speaker is going to cause this sort of issue with bass loading in the corners. Bookshelf speakers are worlds easier... throw down a rug, some needlepoint on the walls, and you're probably in great shape.
I used to work at an audio dealer. That certainly doesn't make me an authority and I don't have golden ears but I've heard many hundreds of systems and gone to many audio shows. I have some idea of what's out there. I'd love to own a pair of Infinity IRS Beta but I'm so pleased with these Polks, I'm in no hurry to drop huge money on a pair of dream speakers. I'll bet if I had gone with IRS Betas, instead of the A9, I'd have been pretty disillusioned with how bad things sounded until I got my acoustics under control because they would have had the same problems. Long wavelengths are hard to tame. It's a lot easier to set up speakers that simply don't create wavelengths that long.
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....om-monitor-70-series-ii.843568/#post-12173375
62caddy has some good input on the speakers, plus, he also has both the A7 and A9 model. I have only the A9 and the little A3. Of particularly interest is 62caddy's comment the A7 are a lot easier to drive than the A9.
I told you what I know. Here's what I speculate.
A lot of people have a really bad experience with the RTi A9. So much so, I've seen them in black recently for $500/pr used (I wish I had gone that route but mine are Cherry and I paid $900 CAD for a new pair 2 years ago... they occasionally go on sale for less than half price.).
I think the A9 present a complex load. I've also found the A9 are difficult to set up well. If you need your speakers pressed against the wall, these may not be the speakers for you. With a good amp and some setup time, they will do amazing things.
In my case, we had so much bass loaded in the corners, it was pretty gross. There were several holes in the bass, no doubt from standing nodes. I ended up putting body pillows in the corners to wonderful effect. I'm not interested in committing to a major permanent sound absorption program so the pillows are ideal.
From there, it took some doing to find the correct position for the listening chairs.
Now that it's set up, I listen with the DAC feeding directly into an amplifier (no pre, no tone, no room compensation) and listening has become a wonderful emotional experience.
I have several pair of speakers and they all had the same problems before the changes. The majority of my problems were room related.
My A9s drive nicely with the following amplifiers:
Kenwood KA-7300 (65WPC)
Denon AVR-3806 (Don't recall the power... 100, or so)
Yamaha MX-600
Yamaha MX-1000
Hafler Pro5000
I haven't tried any smaller amplifiers, although I have several small classics (40~60WPC that might be found at garage sales). I'd guess the Denon is the lowest quality amp of the listed lot, in terms of handling a complex load.
With serious power, the A9 brings thunder. I've heard plenty of comments the A9 are bright. I don't find this to be the case but they are noticeably brighter with the Kenwood than the Hafler (and enjoyable with either). I've never felt the need to tweek the upper range on a good recording and I haven't listened to any bad recordings, yet. I suspect the bright comments are coming from people who don't have their acoustics sorted and aren't getting the full bass program. Either that, or they don't have enough power to keep the bass goingAny full range speaker is going to cause this sort of issue with bass loading in the corners. Bookshelf speakers are worlds easier... throw down a rug, some needlepoint on the walls, and you're probably in great shape.
I used to work at an audio dealer. That certainly doesn't make me an authority and I don't have golden ears but I've heard many hundreds of systems and gone to many audio shows. I have some idea of what's out there. I'd love to own a pair of Infinity IRS Beta but I'm so pleased with these Polks, I'm in no hurry to drop huge money on a pair of dream speakers. I'll bet if I had gone with IRS Betas, instead of the A9, I'd have been pretty disillusioned with how bad things sounded until I got my acoustics under control because they would have had the same problems. Long wavelengths are hard to tame. It's a lot easier to set up speakers that simply don't create wavelengths that long.
TomB19
Active Member
Quick update on my RTi A9 experience.
I can see why some people hate these speakers. When digital processing isn't ideal, the A9 come off extremely severe. Unpleasant, even.
To have a nice experience, you need a reasonable DAC and the source has to be be capable of pass-through. If the source is re-sampling, it's going to sound terrible.
I've been battling a bug with LibreElec and it switches from sublime to nasty, on occasion. There are times when "pass through" gets turned off, despite appearing to still be on. One song will sound gorgeous and it's obvious on the first bar of the next song that it is re-sampling. I'm still trying to track down the problem but blowing away the profile and reconfiguring always fixes it. From there, I go back and play the nasty track and it's smooth and buttery again. It's a shame because LE is such a perfect platform for my use.
The main issue I have with the A9 is "thin bass". It's a problem that largely goes away with bi-amping. Even with my Denon AVR-3806 in bi-amp mode, the bass is a lot more solid.
For real compelling bass, I use a Haffler or Yamaha power amp with several hundred Watts for the bottom end. In this configuration, the bass is hard and tight; It's terrific.
I've considered if modest speakers, such as the A9, should need such big power to produce great bass. I'm not sure they should but I know it works so I'm going with it.
Keep in mind, I don't blast these speakers. They don't need to wake the neighbors to sound good.
The overall conclusion, at this point, is: These speakers have been tricky to set up, required a lot of work to room acoustics, and require a lot of power to perform their best but they have rewarded with a wonderful experience. They are not B&W Nautilus killers but they are pretty amazing, considering they can be purchased from Best Buy at an amazing price. For people who are looking for a speaker they can place against the wall, in the corners of the room, and connect to their AV receiver, they should probably pass on the A9 (or any near full range ported speaker).
I can see why some people hate these speakers. When digital processing isn't ideal, the A9 come off extremely severe. Unpleasant, even.
To have a nice experience, you need a reasonable DAC and the source has to be be capable of pass-through. If the source is re-sampling, it's going to sound terrible.
I've been battling a bug with LibreElec and it switches from sublime to nasty, on occasion. There are times when "pass through" gets turned off, despite appearing to still be on. One song will sound gorgeous and it's obvious on the first bar of the next song that it is re-sampling. I'm still trying to track down the problem but blowing away the profile and reconfiguring always fixes it. From there, I go back and play the nasty track and it's smooth and buttery again. It's a shame because LE is such a perfect platform for my use.
The main issue I have with the A9 is "thin bass". It's a problem that largely goes away with bi-amping. Even with my Denon AVR-3806 in bi-amp mode, the bass is a lot more solid.
For real compelling bass, I use a Haffler or Yamaha power amp with several hundred Watts for the bottom end. In this configuration, the bass is hard and tight; It's terrific.
I've considered if modest speakers, such as the A9, should need such big power to produce great bass. I'm not sure they should but I know it works so I'm going with it.
Keep in mind, I don't blast these speakers. They don't need to wake the neighbors to sound good.
The overall conclusion, at this point, is: These speakers have been tricky to set up, required a lot of work to room acoustics, and require a lot of power to perform their best but they have rewarded with a wonderful experience. They are not B&W Nautilus killers but they are pretty amazing, considering they can be purchased from Best Buy at an amazing price. For people who are looking for a speaker they can place against the wall, in the corners of the room, and connect to their AV receiver, they should probably pass on the A9 (or any near full range ported speaker).
TomB19
Active Member
More thoughts.
I've been having problems with my digital source. There have been times the system sounds blood horrible. Insufferable.
The RTi A9 have been a nightmare when LibreELEC resamples my music and they are sublime when Volumio plays them correctly.
I picked up a D50s DAC and it sounds noticably different than the D30. It seems to have more mid-range but is also deliciously smooth.
This is just a note on how unforgiving the Polk's are when the signal is poor. That's probably the case for any reasonably revealing speaker.
I'm hoping to smooth out the A9 with some fresh caps and resistors but I doubt it will net much improvement as the Polk's are very pleasant when everything is right.
I've been having problems with my digital source. There have been times the system sounds blood horrible. Insufferable.
The RTi A9 have been a nightmare when LibreELEC resamples my music and they are sublime when Volumio plays them correctly.
I picked up a D50s DAC and it sounds noticably different than the D30. It seems to have more mid-range but is also deliciously smooth.
This is just a note on how unforgiving the Polk's are when the signal is poor. That's probably the case for any reasonably revealing speaker.
I'm hoping to smooth out the A9 with some fresh caps and resistors but I doubt it will net much improvement as the Polk's are very pleasant when everything is right.
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Based on everything you've written, it sounds to me like issues are being introduced by the source which the speakers are simply reproducing accordingly.
FWIW - I have a few duplicates of identical recordings on both vinyl and CD format and some of those I've found extremely harsh compared to the vinyl version. The CDs were purchased when the vinyl developed noise wear over time but ultimately wound up listening to the vinyl when the CD version fell short.
FWIW - I have a few duplicates of identical recordings on both vinyl and CD format and some of those I've found extremely harsh compared to the vinyl version. The CDs were purchased when the vinyl developed noise wear over time but ultimately wound up listening to the vinyl when the CD version fell short.
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TomB19
Active Member
That is exactly right. There are definitely problems with my source.
LibreELEC/Kodi can really butcher the sound quality. I can see a 44.1K file arriving at the DAC as 48K.
Volumio seems to do an excellent job. I'm quickly becoming a big fan.
I haven't had a turntable set up in 30 years but I'm going to pull it out, fix as necessary, and enjoy some albums. I'm currently building a new stand so I'll have room for the table. Looking forward to it.
LibreELEC/Kodi can really butcher the sound quality. I can see a 44.1K file arriving at the DAC as 48K.
Volumio seems to do an excellent job. I'm quickly becoming a big fan.
I haven't had a turntable set up in 30 years but I'm going to pull it out, fix as necessary, and enjoy some albums. I'm currently building a new stand so I'll have room for the table. Looking forward to it.
kevintomb
Well-Known Member
Here is a measurement of the Rtia9, more for posterity, they are the Purple colored graph at top of chart.
Looks like a boosted mid range area 500-2khz and as F1 said a tipped up treble to some degree.
www.soundandvision.com
Looks like a boosted mid range area 500-2khz and as F1 said a tipped up treble to some degree.
Polk RTi A9 Speaker System HT Labs Measures
HT Labs Measures: Polk RTi A9 Speaker System L/R Sensitivity: 90.5 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz Center Sensitivity: 89.5 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz Surround Sensitivity: 88 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz
www.soundandvision.com
Attachments
The 2 dB bump at 15k is hardly cause for the alarm bells being raised and between 500 and 2k it is even less. Of a number of people who've purchased RTiA series models on my recommendation for music reproduction, none have been disappointed. One of them considered it superior to his $50k/pair flagship Snell A7 which astonished even me.
TomB19
Active Member
That graph looks exactly how they sound. They sound very flat. I don't write that as a compliment.Here is a measurement of the Rtia9, more for posterity, they are the Purple colored graph at top of chart.
Looks like a boosted mid range area 500-2khz and as F1 said a tipped up treble to some degree.
Polk RTi A9 Speaker System HT Labs Measures
HT Labs Measures: Polk RTi A9 Speaker System L/R Sensitivity: 90.5 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz Center Sensitivity: 89.5 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz Surround Sensitivity: 88 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz
IMO, the RTi A9 require some house curve to be pleasing.