Thump Thump sounds from my TT

[Embryos]

Technics MK5
shure M35x Cartridge (Newly installed)

Well, Hello! Ive recently noticed that my newly set up TT and cart are producing alot of rumble, when I tap on th TT, or on the table upon which it sits, or even if i press or retract the stylus light. The sounds resonates and comes through my speakers as a bassy sound, and is much more obvious when my receiver is in "stereo" mode. It is not as apparent when in "mono". I thought the Tech 12s were pretty good for avoiding this issue... but I have no idea if it is normal or not. I can also hear the rumble pretty loudly on a slightly warped record. What do you say folks? Is it typical? Maybe my cart isnt alligned? grounding issue?
Other than this "issue", everything else sounds good! I dont recall this being an issue with my old cart, Numark CC1... but I was very new to the TT at that point, and may not have noticed it..
Thank you all for always sharing your experience>>>

 

[Eric Lloyd]

The problem of audible transference when tapping the deck or snapping the target light up & down, etc. is not unusual. The tonearm is mounted on that turntable and any physical shock may be transmitted to the cartridge.

The problem of RUMBLE is different. This is usually from the turntable itself. It may be from the motor bearings or other moving parts. If I recall correctly, you had some shipping issues with this record player? Maybe you want to have it checked out.

Both transmission of outside shocks and internal rumble can also be a symptom of insufficient or inefficient damping. In this you are correct that the SL-1200 is normally very good. It also was made with extremely good motor and bearings. Excessive rumble is not natural to that machine.

As always in diagnosis, begin with the basics (in this case 1) careful visual inspection for defects and 2) verifying proper set-up (cart alignment, vertical tracking angle, vertical tracking force)). Then move on to the more expensive and/or less likely possibilities one at a time.

 

[Fishead]

Have you thoroughly checked the grounding of the table? In my case on a Thorens TD160, I had a similar issue and found that the grounding was the problem.....just a thought and in keeping with Eric's suggestion to rule out easier and less costly fixes first.....

 

[WaynerN]

I need to know more information. Does the "thump, thump, thump" happen with every revolution of the platter?

 

[Embryos]

Retracting the lamp too fast might do it but I can hear the taps on my SL-1210 Mk-II deck through the speakers, only when I tap it hard enough to hurt. This doesn't sound right. The M35X specs don't mention compliance but calls for up to 3 grams of VTF (with 3g recommended). I'm not comfortable with such high VTF for normal record listening and suspect it's a lower compliance cart, which could result in a tonearm / cart mismatch. Perhaps try to test it again with the higher VTF settings? Perhaps, if you can live with it, just accept it and don't tap the deck?

I beleive the cart is fine with the TT, many people here suggested the sure m35x, and I am pleased overall. I had some concern with the weight as well, but figured, what the hell, seems like a god one to start with. Ive rebalanced headshell, weight, VTF, ground cable, speakers etc, to no avail. I can definitelty "live with it", but would rather resolve it of course!

 

[Embryos]

The problem of audible transference when tapping the deck or snapping the target light up & down, etc. is not unusual. The tonearm is mounted on that turntable and any physical shock may be transmitted to the cartridge.

The problem of RUMBLE is different. This is usually from the turntable itself. It may be from the motor bearings or other moving parts. If I recall correctly, you had some shipping issues with this record player? Maybe you want to have it checked out.

Both transmission of outside shocks and internal rumble can also be a symptom of insufficient or inefficient damping. In this you are correct that the SL-1200 is normally very good. It also was made with extremely good motor and bearings. Excessive rumble is not natural to that machine.

As always in diagnosis, begin with the basics (in this case 1) careful visual inspection for defects and 2) verifying proper set-up (cart alignment, vertical tracking angle, vertical tracking force)). Then move on to the more expensive and/or less likely possibilities one at a time.

I think I misused the term "rumble".
My main issue is with I tap or bump the table, no matter how slight. It isnt as loud when in "mono" as it is in "stereo", but still there. If I listen to very soft, ambient and spacious instrumentals, I can hear a constant "rumble" at that point, and have to put the receiver in "mono", and also hear it many times at the beggining of an album, or in between tracks. Again, it is louder when in "stereo" mode. I did have the shipping issue, and didnt seem to have the "rumble" issue initially, or maybe just didnt recognize it at that point, being relatively new to TTs. It seemed prevelant when I installed the new cart and stylus. I have checked all the obvious things you pointed out, I guess a common sense thing I should try is putting my old numark CC1 back on there, and compare the difference if any.
thanks!

 

[Embryos]

Have you thoroughly checked the grounding of the table? In my case on a Thorens TD160, I had a similar issue and found that the grounding was the problem.....just a thought and in keeping with Eric's suggestion to rule out easier and less costly fixes first.....

I did check the ground, disconnected and reconnected, to no avail. What was the problem you found with yours?

 

[Embryos]

I need to know more information. Does the "thump, thump, thump" happen with every revolution of the platter?

The "Thump thumpitty thump" only occurs when I thump thump the TT with my fingertip, no matter how slight. The harder I tap, the louder it is. For the most part the revolution of the platter doesnt make noise, but I can hear it at the beggining of an album before the first track, between tracks, and also if I am listening to music that is soft, has silent or quiet parts such as ambient instrumentals. I have a couple of records with slight warps, and when the warp runs under the sylus, I can hear the "womp" from the speakers. Of course more severe the warp, the louder the "womp" or "thump". In any case the "thump", "womp" or "rumble" is always louder when I am listening in "stereo" mode. My receiver does have a "subsonic filter" button but that doesnt seem to make a difference..
Thanks!

 

[stereofisher]

Don't "thump" the turntable. You are going to get a noise when playing a record. If a record is badly worped the tonearm with "thump" or jump on the record. Been playing with several cartridges. Been a Shure guy all my life pretty much. Had some Pickerings laying around here. Had them for years bought some generic styli for them. Sounded a little off. Had some distortion so I went back to a Shure M91ED and my free Strauss waltz has a worp. Thumped as you called. Switch back to the Pickering XV-15. It has a brush on it. Reset the tracking a half gram heavier and now it sounds OK. Two things to do. First, no touching the turntable while in play. Second, try adding a half gram to the tracking weight. It fixed my "thump" my two cents. Good luck.

Eric

 

[Dr Tinear]

Don't "thump" the turntable. You are going to get a noise when playing a record. ...

This should be obvious, but apparently it isn't. If the "thump" noise you get when you tap the plinth bothers you, don't tap the plinth.

There's another solution to the problem, but it will cost you a bit of money. Replace your turntable with one that has a suspended subchassis, such as an AR or a Linn Sondek. The suspension isolates the arm and platter from the plinth, so you can tap on the plinth all day without getting a thump through the speakers.

 

[Embryos]

Don't "thump" the turntable. You are going to get a noise when playing a record. If a record is badly worped the tonearm with "thump" or jump on the record. Been playing with several cartridges. Been a Shure guy all my life pretty much. Had some Pickerings laying around here. Had them for years bought some generic styli for them. Sounded a little off. Had some distortion so I went back to a Shure M91ED and my free Strauss waltz has a worp. Thumped as you called. Switch back to the Pickering XV-15. It has a brush on it. Reset the tracking a half gram heavier and now it sounds OK. Two things to do. First, no touching the turntable while in play. Second, try adding a half gram to the tracking weight. It fixed my "thump" my two cents. Good luck.

Eric

Ive adjusted the tracking weight, it doesnt seem to help.. besides the occasional thump or womp, The TT sounds and works excellently as far as I can tell.. I can live with it, its not so bad. Lets see what happens with my next new cart, which I am not sure yet will be.
Thanks!

 

[Embryos]

This should be obvious, but apparently it isn't. If the "thump" noise you get when you tap the plinth bothers you, don't tap the plinth.

There's another solution to the problem, but it will cost you a bit of money. Replace your turntable with one that has a suspended subchassis, such as an AR or a Linn Sondek. The suspension isolates the arm and platter from the plinth, so you can tap on the plinth all day without getting a thump through the speakers.

yeah, not tapping the table is basically where im at. I was just wondering if it was normal operation, or if I may be dealing with something that is not right... so i take it what you are saying, is that the tapping resulting in thumping is perfectly normal? As far as the other TT with a suspended chassis, I purchased a fully auto Bong&olfson something or other for $7 at my local flea market that has one... pretty attractive table, but I havent used it yet. ill have to give it the old "tap test " and see what happens!
thank you..

 

[Embryos]

A Technics SL-12XX should be able to handle minor tapping without sending it to the speakers.
It is problematic to say the least. The OP could indeed stop tapping the TT and this will eliminate the obvious annoyance but
may not solve sub sonic frequencies occurance due to environmental resonances.
It appears the TT performance is less than optimal and this is true whether or not the OP taps the TT.

Yes.. thank you for understanding my concern. I mean its obvious to not tap the table if you dont like the noise it produces as people are recommending...but that doesnt solve the problem right? its kinda like saying, "you dont like how your car shakes when you drive over 35MPH? well drive slower!" haha... anyway.. any idea what my problem might be?
thank you !

 

[Embryos]

You got the heavy duty stock rubber mat - right?
I already mentioned I'm not too fond of that DJ cart and the high VTF it requires.
This, with perhaps a combination of too lose TA vertical bearings could (theoretically) be a suspect...
Maybe wait for that other cart - and try the tap test again before taking too drastic measures?

 

[Embryos]

yes i forgot you were actually the first to respond with advice and the opinion that something is not quite kosher...I do have the heavy rubber OG mat,,,and for the most part everything sounds great. No rush for a new cart at this point, especially considering my wife says that were broke from my vinyl addiction...haha(not quite true). I think the answer at this point will be the first thing you and most others said............
"""""""""MAYBE DONT TAAP THE TABLE!!"""

 

[Dr Tinear]

yeah, not tapping the table is basically where im at. I was just wondering if it was normal operation, or if I may be dealing with something that is not right... so i take it what you are saying, is that the tapping resulting in thumping is perfectly normal? As far as the other TT with a suspended chassis, I purchased a fully auto Bong&olfson something or other for $7 at my local flea market that has one... pretty attractive table, but I havent used it yet. ill have to give it the old "tap test " and see what happens!
thank you..

I wasn't trying to be flippant. I've used a number of turntables over the years, both suspended and non, and have found that all of the non-suspended turntables will send a thump to the speakers if you tap the plinth while a record is playing. You might be able to minimize the thump by putting a non-suspended turntable on a wall-mounted shelf or a very solid rack, but you won't eliminate it completely. The rack that my Technics SL-230 sits on is pretty solid and is standing on a poured concrete basement floor, and I can still get a small thump through the speakers if I tap the plinth while a record is playing. The AR XA that I previously used in that system was dead silent; you could pound on that plinth and it wouldn't thump.

 

[majick47]

This subject has come up a number of times in the past and every table I'v had be it direct drive, belt drive, suspended, non suspended, low-fi/mid-fi/high end was installed on commercial wall shelves, heavy steel audio racks on a concrete floor if you touch/tap the top of the plinth I would hear a sound/thump transmitted to the speakers. If your listening to a record and you don't want to hear any thumps don't touch your table. As Dr Tinear mentioned your table has to be situated on a solid/steady/level foundation, this being a wall shelf or heavy audio equipment stand.

 

[majick47]

Many of the problems like this one as Botrytis mentioned are due to poor system set up with haphazard placement of the components. Money spent has little to do with it, a well set up $200 system can sound superior to a poorly setup $20,000 system. Speaker placement along with component placement can make or break the sound quality. In the end if you do some research and be creative money is a very small factor, simply reading and following the advice of the owners manual that came with all your equipment will go a long way to giving you rewarding sound quality.

 

[Embryos]

I wasn't trying to be flippant. I've used a number of turntables over the years, both suspended and non, and have found that all of the non-suspended turntables will send a thump to the speakers if you tap the plinth while a record is playing. You might be able to minimize the thump by putting a non-suspended turntable on a wall-mounted shelf or a very solid rack, but you won't eliminate it completely. The rack that my Technics SL-230 sits on is pretty solid and is standing on a poured concrete basement floor, and I can still get a small thump through the speakers if I tap the plinth while a record is playing. The AR XA that I previously used in that system was dead silent; you could pound on that plinth and it wouldn't thump.

i feel reassured... it certainly seems to make perfect sense that youd get a thump"

 

[Embryos]

i feel reassured... it certainly seems to make perfect sense that youd get a thump"

i feel reassured.... it certainly seems to make perfect sense that youd get a thump if u thump the table...i mean, the stylus is just doing its job at that point right!