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Time Windows vs. Time Frames?

StuartB

StuartB

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
I remember hearing the Time Windows when they were current....always was impressed with them. Now I see more posts about Time Frames. And the few times i have found DCM speakers locally the are TF. I am curious on how they compare and which is preferred. I have often thought about picking up a pair of DCM speakers and restoring them, but not sure which would be "best".
 
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I've owned both TimeWindow 3's and TimeFrame 700's. For me and my room/components/situation, the TF's were preferable. YMMV.

Dave

StuartB said:
I remember hearing the Time Windows when they were current....always was impressed with them. Now I see more posts about Time Frames. And the few times i have found DCM speakers locally the are TF. I am curious on how they compare and which is preferred. I have often thought about picking up a pair of DCM speakers and restoring them, but not sure which would be "best".
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My experience comparing TW1 and 1a vs TF500s left me with good impressions of both speakers. Different designs but both sound great. Having to pick between the two, I'd take the TWs. It is important to note that the TW uses 2x the drivers of the TF500s though.
 
I've owned a bunch of DCM, and think you can call TF 600 equal to TW 1 while TF 700 very near to TW 3.
The key will always be the room you put them in. And do not forget to use plenty of power. The smaller ones I mentioned here can easily take 150 watts. 200 at the next level. I am looking for an M-80 or equivalent for my Time Squared.
 
I personally preferred my TW1's and especially my TW3's vs a pair of Time Frame TF400's I almost bought. The TF400's were a decent speakers, but they just didn't have that huge sound stage the TW's have due to the unusual driver arrangement that only the TW's have, and I'd imagine all TF's are similar, with the higher numbers, 600 + sounding better, but still like the TF400's I heard.
 
chrisand4 said:
I have TW1s, TF 350s, and TF700s.

Out of the three, the 700s are the best, and are my main speakers right now.

The 350s are very good too, the 700s just do everything better.

I don't care for the TWs much, they do sound nice, but the highs on mine are really sharp, almost harsh. These are the earliest TWs, I think the tweeters are Phillips. They might benefit from a recap, but that is tough to do on early TWs.
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Yeah, something is definitely wrong with your TW1's because my 1's, and my 3's are far from harsh, and I'm very sensitive to, and in fact hate bright sounding speakers. My 1's have Philips tweeters while the 3's have Vifa domes.
 
89grand said:
Yeah, something is definitely wrong with your TW1's because my 1's, and my 3's are far from harsh, and I'm very sensitive to, and in fact hate bright sounding speakers. My 1's have Philips tweeters while the 3's have Vifa domes.
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Sweet.
 
tomlinmgt said:
Sweet.
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There really is something somewhat a little special going on with the TW3's. First, the Vifa tweeters are better than the Philips, just a general overall increase in smoothness and a bit of top end extension. Then, the crossover in the 3's is considerably larger and more advanced, and then there's the coaxial mounting of those tweeters that seems to add to the seamless, point source type sound. Also too, the 3's have one 6.5" and one 8" woofer which seems to increase the bass to a degree, while at the same time, smoothing a bit of upper bass bloat the 1's have with their two 6.5's, plus a bigger cabinet and level controls the 1's and 1a's don't have.
 
I have only compared the lowly TF-350 with TW1 and the 350 can not handle the power the way the TW can. I now have a pair of TF-400s to compare when I'm finished regrilleing them. Since many here say that the 600 is the point that the TW is left a little lacking, I guess I have to get better TFs before I'll move to the TF camp.
 
89grand said:
Yeah, something is definitely wrong with your TW1's because my 1's, and my 3's are far from harsh, and I'm very sensitive to, and in fact hate bright sounding speakers. My 1's have Philips tweeters while the 3's have Vifa domes.
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It is my understanding that the TW1a has Vifa domes...am I correct? I saw one of the '07 Vifas on the 'bay and picked it up as a spare. My 1a's have the screen thingy over the tweeters.
 
GuyNoir said:
It is my understanding that the TW1a has Vifa domes...am I correct? I saw one of the '07 Vifas on the 'bay and picked it up as a spare. My 1a's have the screen thingy over the tweeters.
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Yes, the 1a's have Vifa tweeters also, the 1's have the Philips.
 
I have a pair of TF700s, and have listened pretty closely to TW1s (never paid attention to the suffix) on several occasions. I do prefer the larger Timeframe models, but only slightly.
I haven't really heard the smaller TFs much, so I can't really compare them, but I've generally found the TW1s to be a little too "polite" for me, while the TF700s (and 1000s) just seemed to get me more involved in their sound. I suspect the TF2000s would be VERY good, but I've never heard them, myself.

I've only heard the TW3s in limited "shop listening room" types of environments, but they seemed very good... maybe better than the TF700s, but I doubt I'd prefer them over TF1000s. To me, they sounded VERY similar to the TW1s, just more dynamic... pretty much what I liked about the TF700s vs TW1s.

I consider all the earlier (transmission line) DCMs to be fantastic "bang for the buck" - they were when they new, and are now even more so, as often overlooked, vintage speakers.
 
After I refoamed the TF-350 I was surprised how close its sound was to that of the TW1. Although it could not image as well or play as loud before the woofer got too busy trying to figure out the music it was a nice sounding speaker. The TW was a much better speaker. As it should be.

using the rebuilt MG-2.5/R and MG-IIIa speakers for a while now and then a recent swap back to the TW1 and I did not like the sound of the system. Sounded bad compared to the 6 foot tall speakers. But the TWs were on the floor and I know they sound better 9" up. So I grabbed the stands I made cutting 9" off the top of a pair of Infinity SM122, to make the best use of those speakers and put the TWs on those 'stands.' This made a world of difference. The sound was no longer down there and unclear. The TW sound was back.

Raising the speakers uncouples the bass from the room and allows the speaker to open up. Putting the tweeters at ear level helps a lot. The TW with its two 6½" woofers is worked hard and can have lower mid bass congestion. DCM offered the Time Bass subwoofers for these speakers back in the day but they made the speaker system too big. Using a modern sub with them can take some of the deepest bass out of the TW and allow it to sing better than without the subs. I've tried em both ways and well I like the sound of the TimeWindow so if the sub is hooked up fine if it is not, no big deal for me.
 
When I got the TW SurroundScapes, I moved my TW's to my office/cave. I eventually paired them back up with the Carver 6250. In this setting, with the room about 18' by 30', the TW's are at one end of the room. I don't know if the room setting just matched them well, or if it was the Carver, but the TW's now sound as good or better then they ever have in the 30 or so years I have owned them. Great bass, perfect stage and voice/mids are just clean and airy. Completely fill the room, they have found their resting spot.
 
Speaker placement was a real eye opener for me once I tried the Cardas "golden ratio" placement. Every speaker I have when positioned using that formula sounds better, including both of my Time Windows of course too. In my case, my room is 13x19 feet and the formula suggests 43" from the side wall, measured from the center of the speaker, and 69.73" from the rear wall measured from the front of the speaker. The actual formula is room width X .276 = distance from the side walls measured from the middle of the speaker, and room width X .447 = distance from the front wall measured from the center of the woofer, but you can't really do that with a Time Window because of the design, so I just go from the front of the speaker.

Here's a link if anyone wants some interesting reading.

http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php

Speaker placement has a more dramatic effect on the overall sound than any one piece of gear, or cable or whatever things people replace to try and improve their sound quality. The best gear in the world won't sound that great if the speakers are in a bad location.

In my room, it's also my home theater room, and that speaker placement doesn't work for TV or movies, and really, the speakers are too far out into the room to leave them there at all times, so I run my JBL L80t's in my theater setup, and leave them closer to the front wall, next to the TV like most people do, and when I know I'm going to listen to music, I bring the TW3's out and set them up using a tape measure. It's sort of a pain, and not everyone can do this, but the results were so good, I don't want to listen to them shoved up against the wall.
 
I'm going to check these measurements against the current position. Thanks for the link, very interesting.
 
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