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Tone controls on tube amps

playittwice

Super Member
So I am struggling trying to make a decision on a tube amp purchase regarding tone controls. Do you folks prefer an amp with them or without with your Klipsch?


The amp I’m looking at does not have them. I’ve never had an amp, SS or tube without, but the amp I’m looking into getting is a very nicely designed tube integrated. So I wanted to get some feedback from experienced people with Klipsch speakers.

Edited to add “people with Klipsch speakers”. All opinions are welcome, just wanted to stress the brand of speakers since that’s what I am using.


Thanks
 
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I had a Parasound P5 and never really used the tone controls. Now I have a Primaluna evo 300 preamp and never thought it needed tone controls.
 
So I am struggling trying to make a decision on a tube amp purchase regarding tone controls. Do you folks prefer an amp with them or without with your Klipsch?

The amp I’m looking at does not have them. I’ve never had an amp, SS or tube without, but the amp I’m looking into getting is a very nicely designed tube integrated. So I wanted to get some feedback from experienced people.

To me, it depends a lot more on the "room" than it does the amp. In open rooms (which still obviously are not acoustically perfect), I prefer no tone controls. In smaller closed rooms and/or acoustically difficult rooms, I've found tone controls to be helpful.

I don't think I've ever heard a difference between tone controls set to "flat", and "tone defeat" (tone controls bypassed via a switch), so it probably doesn't make a huge difference whether or not a given amp has tone controls. I'm glad my tube amp doesn't have tone controls because of the room it is used in, but I doubt I'd hear a difference if it had them when they were set flat.
 
Well it’s not that I want them, I just don’t know if I want to spend the money on an amp that doesn’t have them. Im asking Klipsch users because they are a bit more forward/bright than some speakers. I do use the treble control, to decrease the treble, more than I use the bass control. Hoping the 7591 circuit is a bit more laid back than the el84 circuit. I’ll see I guess.

Thanks
 
There's no easy answer. The purist will say no to tone controls. There are ways to eq the speakers with out using tone controls. Room treatments, speaker placement, crossover mods, different drivers, tube rolling, amp rolling ect.
Others will go with an active crossover(with lots of equalizing controls) and multiple amps.
Personally I use a Rotel RX 402 as a pre and it has tone controls, however they stay centered.
 
My Chinese tune integrated doesn't have them. I have Forte IIIs and I'm thinking of a preamp as a front end to the amp as just a power amp.

Wish I had the budget for a Luxman tube integrated in a wooden case!
 
If you really, really want tone controls, either consider going with DSP or take a look at the Schiit Loki.

I've been using the Loki for over a year now with my tube amp and it is a great piece for the price.It can be switched out when not needed.It helps bring out some bass in my Heresy III.
 
I've been using the Loki for over a year now with my tube amp and it is a great piece for the price.It can be switched out when not needed.It helps bring out some bass in my Heresy III.


Do you feel you have ya attenuate the high frequencies at all?
 
On some Redbook cd,s I do,but I'm over 60 and I'm sure that attributes to my loss in the higher frequencies.
I grew up with tone control's and loudness so i still like to have some adjustments.
I've swaped tubes to some NOS Mazda/Crites,Mullards 6201 gold pins which did bring out the mids and highs,so on the Loki I've got them centered with more on the bass.
 
I've had Klipsch Chorus in the past with a tube amp with tone controls. I used the tone controls fairly often. Listening to what you are have said in this thread - I would recommend that you get an amp with tone controls.

Cheers,

Snade
 
It doesn't matter which speakers I had, Klipsch, Bozaks, Altec, Stephens, I used tone controls. I prefer graphic tone controls myself, which are very rare on tube units. Hybrids,, SS and Tube. I like the Mcintosh MA 2275 with a SS front end and tube power amp with Graphic tone controls. They now make a MA 352 with graphic tone controls and the new super large MA 12000 which could power three pairs of Klipsch horns with plenty of power left over. They are tube pre-amp SS power amp hybrids. If it were me and wanted vintage vintage. I would choose a MA 230. SS front end tube amplifier. I pushed my Stephens, two different pair of Altecs and first Bozaks with it and it performed flawlessly. The Klipsch we had were pushed with a 2105 with a very mellow C-28 pre-amp and both were SS. I have installed a lot of Klipsch with MC 240's, 275's and had customers with MC-30's and 60's, along with Mac mono and Stereo tube pre-amps from the 50's and 60's. A klipschorn with a MC-30 with a C-8 pre-amp made for one of the best Mono systems I ever heard. I loved Marantz Model 7C pre-amps, but always preferred Mac tube power amps. New versions are still made today. MC 275, Mc 1502, MC 2301. 75 watts, 150 watts, 300 watts. There is the Commemorative MC 2000, at 130 watts per channel to. I never saw an integrated tube unit meet manufacturer specs let alone the more stringent Mcintosh specs. Doesn't matter if they were Dynaco, Scott, Fisher, Pilot, Eico, or Sherwood. Separates were always better. Mac being the best with Marantz right along side. Citation was pretty good, too.
 
ok... so i dont know how to insert a link but this is directly from the dynaco tube audio forum from tubes4hifi:
hey, that was fun, let's answer another question that comes up almost everyday.
Do you want tone controls? I don't know, you tell me!
Do I recommend tone controls? NO! Do I use tone controls? YES! Confusing? YES!

OK, so if you think you want tone controls, the answer is yes, you probably do want tone controls.
I perfectly understand that not everyone has perfect ears, perfect speakers, perfect room setup.
I understand there is probably more poorly recorded music, than music that is recorded perfectly!!

So what you need to know is that tone controls will always compromise sound quality.
This is because using a circuit with tone controls means you need to have a minimum of 3X as much gain as you do without them.
A high quality tone control circuit needs 20db of gain to overcome the losses of tone controls.
Tone controls work two ways, by cutting gain (usually thru filters which just filter those tones to ground) or in worst cases
by using negative feedback to reduce gain on those tones.
To boost bass and treble (more likely than reducing it) those extreme frequencies need more gain, more amplification, which can lead to more noise,
worse signal to noise ratio, more distortion, and usually all the other frequencies (the critical midrange) are subjected to negative feedback.

These are the things we deal with in order to make the music sound better to our own ears, using our own speakers, our own rooms, our own recordings.
We do need tone controls to overcome all these short comings, but we have to accept that the compromises involved are not as bad as the results.
Are they better? They can be, or maybe not, that again, is a subjective question that only you can answer for yourself.

Oh, so maybe you'd like my OPINION, rather than the facts as presented above?
Sure! Do I like tone controls? NO! Do I recommend tone controls? NO! Do I use tone controls? YES! Sometimes, but I only use them when needed,
as necessary, and when I am prepared to accept all those limitations to overcome my own personal set of limitations involving my own ears, my own speakers,
my own listening room, my own recordings, some of which are awful, some have no bass, some have way too much bass, some are tinny, some are hollow.

Hey, here's an idea for you. Need more bass? Get a subwoofer, you can dial in as much boost as you want or need. And guess what,
then you don't need a bass control on your preamp!!! You don't need extra gain, extra noise, poorer circuit design. What a concept!!!
So . . . . need more treble? Gee, let's think about that for a moment. Maybe I could add an extra tweeter, a more efficient tweeter, one with it's own gain control. . . .

Hey, here's an idea for you. Make sure your listening room is at least somewhat enhanced to actually sound better.
Do some research, read some books, buy some room treatments.
Go all in !!! Buy a digital DSP EQ system for $10,000 and have it shape and perfect everything to your ears and your room! Really??? No, I think NOT!!!

The bottom line - music is for enjoyment, and that is subjective, so do your own thing!!!
And MY recommendations? Get the very best speakers you can afford, get your room setup correctly, buy better music, and THEN,
either buy an SP14 (and a PH16 for phono) or buy an SP9 with tone controls, and then . . . . enjoy the music!! Simple!!

if i have broken any forum rules by using a quote or quoting from another forum i apologize...just trying to help...:)
 
Whoa D, I asked specifically about tone controls with Klipsch speakers. It was NOT a general question about tone controls! Needing them or not! This is why I posted in the KLIPSCH FORUM, to avoid all the “here we go again” lingo. But thanks for your input.
 
Yes....that will work just fine. I've got a chi-fi integrated amp and it works great.



I'd go to there site and read up on it and also google to find out what others think.

I've got a cd transport to Schiit Gumby dac to Loki into 60 watt integrated tube amp, out to Klipsch Heresy III.

I've had tone control's on every preamp and receiver I've owned since the 70s. This is the first one I've ever had with out them and it makes a nice difference with the Loki. Shiit was suppose to come out with a larger one,but as of now this is there only one. You can buy direct from them.

Larry
 

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Whoa D, I asked specifically about tone controls with Klipsch speakers. It was NOT a general question about tone controls! Needing them or not! This is why I posted in the KLIPSCH FORUM, to avoid all the “here we go again” lingo. But thanks for your input.

sorry..i guess i misunderstood the question. i remember reading this article when i was deciding and thought it might help. i have a tube amp and klipsch speakers and a pre-amp with tone controls, i use the tone controls somewhat, i like to have the option if i want it.
 
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