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Toshiba SA-775 Output problems

Phobosx

Phringe
I have an old Toshiba SA-775 here I was hoping to fix. The unit would not come out of protection, but no fuses were blown. Initially, I found that Q 601 & Q603 were shorted. I remove them and then the system played through the good channel.

I ordered some MJE21194 & MJE21193 to replace them. I was unsure about one of the emitter resistors so I replaced both of those on the bad channel with the right .22 Ohm resistor. I checked the driver transistors and 2SA839 seemed to be questionable (Measured low), so I replaced the 2SA839 and 2SC1669 with MJE15033 and MJE15032. R601 (Labeled as R605, see story below) was open as well so I replaced that with a 10 Ohm 2 Watt resistor.

After I replaced the bad parts and there is still no click. I removed the 1193 and 1194 and now the channel that used to work doesn't. I removed ALL the outputs and still no click. I was wondering if someone could give me a direction to look. I have checked the upstream transistors from the drivers and none show shorted (Q505, Q507, Q509, Q513 and Q508, Q510, Q512, Q514). I checked the transistors on the protection board (All small signal ones) and they do not appear to have any shorts either. No fuses blown, and none of the parts get hot when the system is running. R822 ands R821 do get warm when the system has been on for a bit but not hot. Here are the voltage readings for the Output and Driver transistors. The tuner appears to work as do the lamps so the power supply board appears to be fine. I checked the yellow VCC power input on the protection/amp board and its 42 v (42.4 actually) as shown in the schematic.

You will see in my measurements below that the rail voltage is 47 and -47. The schematic says 54 and -54, but even when the one channel worked, before I starts changing parts, this was only 47 and -47. I downloaded the schematic / service manual from HiFi Engine and I am not sure how reliable this schematic is. For example, it shows R 601 is the resistor I replaced but it's labeled as R605 on the board. R601 has holes and a label on the board, but the leads go to a point of no connection. But R603 is in it's place and the opening for R607 (the compliment to R605) is empty. It's like this board was used in a couple different model of receiver and has open spots for other parts. I am guessing it was populated as required based on the model.

I took the output transistors out to check them and no shorts on those so, it does not appear that I blew them out. They seem to read properly on my meter in the Diode Check mode. I did the same with the drivers and they check out too. They don't show any shorts while in the circuit either when using the Diode Check function of my meter.



Outputs: ----------------

Q601: E 33.7 v
B 34.34 v
C 47.32 v

Q603: E 33.6 v
B 34.34 v
C -47.35 v

Q602: E 16.4 v
B 16.86 v
C 47.36 v

Q604: E 16.37 v
B 16.88 v
C -47.32 v


Drivers ---------------------

Q515: E 34.6 v
B 34.8 v
C 47 v

Q517: E 33 v
B 33.6 v
C -47.2

Q516: E 16.3 v
B 16.9 v
C 47 v

Q518: E 15.9 v
B 16.1 v
C -47 v
 
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Sounds like you really messed things up.

1. Check your work. Solder bridges, wrong parts, parts installed incorrectly, etc.
2. If everything is good but your amps are still spitting out anything but 0V, use the service manual voltages to see what's going on. Check that all regulated power supply voltages are good. Don't worry about the rails.

I'm assuming you have a DBT right.....
 
1. Check your work. Solder bridges, wrong parts, parts installed incorrectly, etc.
2. If everything is good but your amps are still spitting out anything but 0V, use the service manual voltages to see what's going on. Check that all regulated power supply voltages are good. Don't worry about the rails.
Thanks. I have checked for bridges and that the parts are in correctly (EBC) and such. I do have a DBT and have used it to power the unit up after each change to ensure there aren't any problems.

The schematic is not as useful as others I had used in the past, and voltage notations seem to be limited. Plus, as I noted before, there are inconsistencies between what the schematic says and the labeling of the parts on the board. Heck, some parts on the board don't even appear on the schematic. But, my main question I guess is, what could be causing the driver transistors to have high voltages? I would think this could be if the ones before the drivers were bad, but those all check out. And oddly enough both channels are out, when I really haven't changed anything on the one, I guess it's possible repairing the bad one (and making a mistake) took out some shared part someplace.

Could the Protection circuit be bad? That is shared I guess between the two channels. Count it be feeding DC into the output transistors?
 
Thanks. I have checked for bridges and that the parts are in correctly (EBC) and such. I do have a DBT and have used it to power the unit up after each change to ensure there aren't any problems.

The schematic is not as useful as others I had used in the past, and voltage notations seem to be limited. Plus, as I noted before, there are inconsistencies between what the schematic says and the labeling of the parts on the board. Heck, some parts on the board don't even appear on the schematic. But, my main question I guess is, what could be causing the driver transistors to have high voltages? I would think this could be if the ones before the drivers were bad, but those all check out. And oddly enough both channels are out, when I really haven't changed anything on the one, I guess it's possible repairing the bad one (and making a mistake) took out some shared part someplace.

Could the Protection circuit be bad? That is shared I guess between the two channels. Count it be feeding DC into the output transistors?
The protection circuit literally cannot do that in any way, and it's not bad, it's doing its job.
If they are putting out high voltage, the parts before them are telling them to.
 
Well, this is a first. I found out why all the voltages were high on the driver board. It seems the Input wires (R, L and GND) complete the circuit to the chassis ground. I had the input wires unplugged to help me access the output/amp/protection board better. I was measuring the Resistance of the ( - ) lead on a amp board Capacitor and noticed I was not getting 0 Ohms like I expected. I followed a trace for the ( - ) and it went to the GND connection for the plug with the R, L and GND.

I plugged this Input jack back into the socket on the AMP board and bang, clicked like it should and works great.
 
I'd probably measure R805/R806 to see which channel is causing the protection issue.
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if both are 0v, then there might be an issue with the protection circuit. I'd look at the voltages listed and compare with your measurements.
 
Rickl, thanks for the info. I think our messages may have crossed. Last night I did check those, as well as the transistors on the protection board. I didn't find anything out of whack.

However, I did end up fixing the problem. The problem was that the Amplifier board had no ground. In this receiver, the amplifier and protection board are the same physical board, It is screwed to a metal bracket and that bracket screws to the chassis. However, to work on this and replace the bad parts I had to remove the assembly from the receiver. Initially, when I had one channel working, the board was getting a ground from the R & L Input wires as that has a GND pin on it. It's a 3 pin plug. To gain better access to replace all the bad parts I removed the plug, which inadvertently removed the ground. When I replaced all the bad parts I did not plug this connector back in. I figured why bother since I don't want any input anyway when I do any DC or bias adjustments.

This board does have a black ground wire going to it on the Protection side of the board. Apparently that Ground does not make it over to the Amplifier part of the board. As soon as I plugged in the Input cable (the 3 pin cable with R, L and GND) the unit's relay clicked and it works perfectly.

I can't believe the only ground for the audio circuit is this one connection. When it's all assembled and screwed together, the connection to the chassis likely provides another connection to ground for the Amplifier board.
 
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