Trend in vintage values?
- Thread starter KeithD
- Start date
The future looks so bleak, I don't believe the vast majority of "survivors" among us will have the least interest in buying or selling what audio equipment we have. I can see periods of power rationing where cooking a meal, heating water and charging our devices (and cars? 
) will be top priorities of energy use, let alone time to sit listening to our favorite tunes. Much of our gear, if we decide to keep it for someday when times are brighter, or for our uninterested grandchildren will probably be mothballed in closets and attics. We may be unable to get replacement parts from Asia for basic circuitry. If many of us are housed in pods or shoebox accommodations, there will be no room for audio systems bigger than an iphone and set of headphones.
The West is in the beginning throes of collapse. Normal has forever gone. One can discuss the state of the economy at the macro level, but on a day to day basis, how our lives will change will be biblical. We will be scavengers on the ruins of our technical prowess of the 20th century. Any talk about merely another recession coming is only to prevent us from panicking. We are looking at the 1930s on steroids and a duration that could last decades. And that is a best case scenario.
As for current prices on audio equipment, routine visits to thrift shops, pawn shops, yard sales etc. where equipment is being given away by people just trying to get rid of estates of family members will yield best values. People who try to sell their stuff on CL or FBM etc. will be looking for the biggest buck. Unless they are extremely desperate to sell, they will not all break but decide to keep their gear until a hoped for price recovery, which will never happen... So enjoy it while you still can.
) will be top priorities of energy use, let alone time to sit listening to our favorite tunes. Much of our gear, if we decide to keep it for someday when times are brighter, or for our uninterested grandchildren will probably be mothballed in closets and attics. We may be unable to get replacement parts from Asia for basic circuitry. If many of us are housed in pods or shoebox accommodations, there will be no room for audio systems bigger than an iphone and set of headphones.The West is in the beginning throes of collapse. Normal has forever gone. One can discuss the state of the economy at the macro level, but on a day to day basis, how our lives will change will be biblical. We will be scavengers on the ruins of our technical prowess of the 20th century. Any talk about merely another recession coming is only to prevent us from panicking. We are looking at the 1930s on steroids and a duration that could last decades. And that is a best case scenario.
As for current prices on audio equipment, routine visits to thrift shops, pawn shops, yard sales etc. where equipment is being given away by people just trying to get rid of estates of family members will yield best values. People who try to sell their stuff on CL or FBM etc. will be looking for the biggest buck. Unless they are extremely desperate to sell, they will not all break but decide to keep their gear until a hoped for price recovery, which will never happen... So enjoy it while you still can.
bluesky
Lunatic Member
Seems to me many of Sansui's Alpha amplifiers and SR-929/SR-838 turntables, are getting cheaper in Japan (Buyee). I do see real bargains but not on the 'major Alpha amps'. But international Japanese shipping is still 'so costly'.
Sansui's 'accessories' (cables, interconnects, etc.) are definitely selling cheaper. But still - international Japanese shipping!
Sansui in USA seems to holding their used price well. Maybe down 'a little' sometimes, but it's not drastic. Were talking like down $150 to $200 or so on $1100 used items. Still, the 'highly desired amps', in fine condition, are maintaining their prices. The prices of tuners, like the TU-717, have definitely come down. Guess folks are tired of listening to the commercials on the radio. (I got tired of it a decade ago.)
Seems like used Sansui prices are holding OK in Europe. Maybe down just a little sometimes.
Sansui used prices seem to be doing OK, so far. Seems folks just love the dependability & Sound of Sansui!
Sansui's 'accessories' (cables, interconnects, etc.) are definitely selling cheaper. But still - international Japanese shipping!
Sansui in USA seems to holding their used price well. Maybe down 'a little' sometimes, but it's not drastic. Were talking like down $150 to $200 or so on $1100 used items. Still, the 'highly desired amps', in fine condition, are maintaining their prices. The prices of tuners, like the TU-717, have definitely come down. Guess folks are tired of listening to the commercials on the radio. (I got tired of it a decade ago.)
Seems like used Sansui prices are holding OK in Europe. Maybe down just a little sometimes.
Sansui used prices seem to be doing OK, so far. Seems folks just love the dependability & Sound of Sansui!
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I guess I should try to get this thread back on track after my diversion into my big picture view of economic conditions, and how I see the future in that regard. My reason for going down that train of thought is that I expect it to have a material impact on valuations of virtually all assets. Collectibles and any items that are strictly discretionary stand to take an especially big hit in what I see coming.
All that aside, I'd like to pose a couple of questions to those reading and posting here: have you recently picked up any really good deals on gear, or have you seen (and passed) on a some kit that was priced "right", because you were less than enthusiastic about spending money on more non-essentials at the moment?
I'm curious, because I have picked up some stuff lately that I didn't need, but felt the prices were too good to let go. Then again, I have chosen not to buy some gear I'd really have liked, because even thought they were priced fairly (or even quite attractively), I just wasn't "feeling" it, choosing instead to sock some extra cash away in reserve.
All that aside, I'd like to pose a couple of questions to those reading and posting here: have you recently picked up any really good deals on gear, or have you seen (and passed) on a some kit that was priced "right", because you were less than enthusiastic about spending money on more non-essentials at the moment?
I'm curious, because I have picked up some stuff lately that I didn't need, but felt the prices were too good to let go. Then again, I have chosen not to buy some gear I'd really have liked, because even thought they were priced fairly (or even quite attractively), I just wasn't "feeling" it, choosing instead to sock some extra cash away in reserve.
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I have very much slowed down buying equipment in the last couple of years. Nothing really to do with the economy, I just have too much stuff for the space I have for it. There's actually not all that much stuff I'd like to have at this point anyway. I don't feel I can improve much on the set of receivers and amps I have. As Blah Blah said, I'm spending most of my $$ on music on a variety of media rather than gear. Now, having said that, I did buy an AU-999 last winter that was 95% completely restored (I just had to do a couple of boards) that I could not pass up. AND picked up a QRX-5500A that's been on my list on and off for years. The price/condition was too good to pass up. Now, with four quad units and a QSD-2, what more could I want in that department? With and AU-777, 999, and 9900, not sure what integrated I'd want unless I move on to the alphas, DD, X-balanced, etc. However, at this point I have no interest in those. Some day I may buy an AU-717 just to see what the hype is about, but I have no burning desire to spend $$ on one. I've got some of Sansui's best receivers also. Spending most of my time slowly restoring what I have.
Gas where I live in Canada is US$5.27/gal. It threatens to go to $6.50 by October. Groceries have doubled in 3 years. House repairs have doubled. Everyone is barely living paycheck to paycheck. Stores are closing everywhere. We are all scared here. No one expects a turn-around.
Having said, I am not a collector of gear. I know of no one who shares my interest / or they are not in the market as they have what they want. My ears no longer warrant spending large $$$ on anything audio.
I am trying to choose which items to sell, as well as other collectibles. If I knew anyone interested in decent mid level gear, I have seen good deals to be had which I would recommend. But the highest TOTL is still asking peak premiums. What we are essentially talking about is fewer and fewer participants in these markets. (Which almost always precedes a dump).
It is a good time to get a deal, but I am guessing a 30% skid from here.
I'm sorry for being a downer. This may not be the place for this type of speculation, but to answer the question posed I think requires we get our feet wet with the macro economic trends. Perhaps collectors of vintage audio equipment are among a higher echelon of consumer who does not think they are in danger of outliving their money. Cheers.
Having said, I am not a collector of gear. I know of no one who shares my interest / or they are not in the market as they have what they want. My ears no longer warrant spending large $$$ on anything audio.
I am trying to choose which items to sell, as well as other collectibles. If I knew anyone interested in decent mid level gear, I have seen good deals to be had which I would recommend. But the highest TOTL is still asking peak premiums. What we are essentially talking about is fewer and fewer participants in these markets. (Which almost always precedes a dump).
It is a good time to get a deal, but I am guessing a 30% skid from here.
I'm sorry for being a downer. This may not be the place for this type of speculation, but to answer the question posed I think requires we get our feet wet with the macro economic trends. Perhaps collectors of vintage audio equipment are among a higher echelon of consumer who does not think they are in danger of outliving their money. Cheers.
I'll concur with the notion of buying music media, presently used CD's are plentiful and often cheap, and I have been adding to my music collection because of that. I've no interest in cassettes really, and none at all as far as prerecorded media goes. I do selectively pick up a bit of vinyl here and there, but generally anything I'd really want is not being found as a bargain. Don't see much pre-recorded open reel around, save for what is on ebay, and most anything decent is still commanding a high price due to scarcity.
To briefly return to the macro economic part of the discussion, I'm not buying a lot of gear recently, but I am grabbing a few things I have had on my long term wants list for quite a while. It may be foolish to do so, mostly because I have a surplus of gear already, and I could certainly spend that money on other more worthwhile or practical things. But, I derive a lot of enjoyment from this hobby, and as bad as I think things look in the big picture, there's no point placing a bet on the end of the world. If you lose, you lose, and if you win, you won't be collecting the wager anyway. The smart play is to buy only what can be done without having a deleterious effect on other portions of one's budget, and that is pretty much my approach for now.
To briefly return to the macro economic part of the discussion, I'm not buying a lot of gear recently, but I am grabbing a few things I have had on my long term wants list for quite a while. It may be foolish to do so, mostly because I have a surplus of gear already, and I could certainly spend that money on other more worthwhile or practical things. But, I derive a lot of enjoyment from this hobby, and as bad as I think things look in the big picture, there's no point placing a bet on the end of the world. If you lose, you lose, and if you win, you won't be collecting the wager anyway. The smart play is to buy only what can be done without having a deleterious effect on other portions of one's budget, and that is pretty much my approach for now.
Bone Yard
Super Member
For some reason, Sansui Gear has always been hard to find and I've never found great bargains. The original owners usually lugged them back from military bases, know exactly how much they paid for the set and really don't want to let go. Sansui has always seemed like the punk model and with all the information available on the forums, it now seems like the cool vintage brand to own.
Marantz, while priced at the premium brand, seemed to sell more and was (is) slightly easier to find. Pioneer, a great all-around brand, seemed to sell a ton of everything, most of the models pop up on a regular basis.
McIntosh makes great equipment but the design looks almost identical to equipment put out 40 years ago with some upgrades, I don't buy in that world and I'd have a hard time identifying the different models outside of the newer LED displays.
I concur with your friends observations, plus as a buyer, I'm seeing more bargains on rare mid-level equipment. It looks like one of the major buyers of vintage high-end equipment is going into economic freefall right now and, as a business owner, I'm seeing a lot of belt-tightening with local customers. Anecdotally, a group of women were talking last night how none are going out to eat anymore with their families, even for fast-food.
Marantz, while priced at the premium brand, seemed to sell more and was (is) slightly easier to find. Pioneer, a great all-around brand, seemed to sell a ton of everything, most of the models pop up on a regular basis.
McIntosh makes great equipment but the design looks almost identical to equipment put out 40 years ago with some upgrades, I don't buy in that world and I'd have a hard time identifying the different models outside of the newer LED displays.
I concur with your friends observations, plus as a buyer, I'm seeing more bargains on rare mid-level equipment. It looks like one of the major buyers of vintage high-end equipment is going into economic freefall right now and, as a business owner, I'm seeing a lot of belt-tightening with local customers. Anecdotally, a group of women were talking last night how none are going out to eat anymore with their families, even for fast-food.
BilboBaggins
Addicted Member
I have bought a few things recently from japan at really good prices. If I had a waited from 2019 to now, I could have saved $1000 on my turntable.
Here, I agree, the prices are dropping. I took a hit recently on a pair of Genesis Physics IIs. I did it because I want them gone. I also bought a pair of Sony SS-G3s. But that is because I was stupid and sold my beautiful pair to someone and immediately regretted it.
Here, I agree, the prices are dropping. I took a hit recently on a pair of Genesis Physics IIs. I did it because I want them gone. I also bought a pair of Sony SS-G3s. But that is because I was stupid and sold my beautiful pair to someone and immediately regretted it.
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Rybeam
Super Member
The people that remember the glory days of the stereo wars are over 60 years old now. The prices will flatten and then fall as we begin to grow older and drop out of the market. Happening to 1950 and early 60s cars now, same will happen to stereo equipment. People collect what they remember.
THF2
Where we are going, there are no roads
I have been thinking about this topic for a while and I have come to the conclusion that @Monicker1 is correct.The future looks so bleak, I don't believe the vast majority of "survivors" among us will have the least interest in buying or selling what audio equipment we have. I can see periods of power rationing where cooking a meal, heating water and charging our devices (and cars?
The West is in the beginning throes of collapse. Normal has forever gone. One can discuss the state of the economy at the macro level, but on a day to day basis, how our lives will change will be biblical. We will be scavengers on the ruins of our technical prowess of the 20th century. Any talk about merely another recession coming is only to prevent us from panicking. We are looking at the 1930s on steroids and a duration that could last decades. And that is a best case scenario.
As for current prices on audio equipment, routine visits to thrift shops, pawn shops, yard sales etc. where equipment is being given away by people just trying to get rid of estates of family members will yield best values. People who try to sell their stuff on CL or FBM etc. will be looking for the biggest buck. Unless they are extremely desperate to sell, they will not all break but decide to keep their gear until a hoped for price recovery, which will never happen... So enjoy it while you still can.
We (the AK’ers) are some of the last remaining stalwarts of appreciating true “vintage” hifi.
True, there is a resurgence in vinyl which spurs the millennial’s to purchase the latest offerings in USB turntables.
However, the appreciation that those of us that grew up with, longed for and have had the opportunity to live with these fantastic products is truly an “acquired taste” which may not be shared by subsequent generations, thus how the value of many of these products are determined.
Dazaa
Super Member
Rest assured there are plenty of people across Asia and Eastern Europe who treasure this stuff and will ensure it remains desirable for many years to come.
Judging soley by the amount of unsold vintage gear and price drops on fb marketplace it seems the bubble has not only burst but it's also gone down the drain as well in our area. Makes me glad I have no vintage gear to try to sell.
grillebilly
Empty Head
All things older people collect will have to be liquidated by degree. Maybe we are seeing the early stages. There’s not too many young people who will want rooms full of gear.
What I think has extended the price trend is the resurgence of vinyl. IMO there’s spillover to the gear of the vinyl heyday.
What I think has extended the price trend is the resurgence of vinyl. IMO there’s spillover to the gear of the vinyl heyday.
I agree. The Boomer generation has inflated the cost of many things to rediculous levels. When they are dying off in large numbers the bottom will drop off in many market segments. In my area there is a massive increase in over 55 communities, assisted living centers and nursing homes being built. I guess this is the last area where Boomers will cause a price surge before checking out. Prices of vintage items of all sorts are, or soon will be, dropping in price like a rock because the demand is falling sharply due to Boomers not being able, or willing, to continue reliving their youth.
Someone in our area listed a nice looking pair of 1980 vintage walnut khorns yesterday for $4G's. It'll be interesting to see how long they stay at that price. I sat for a while on my pair of equally nice walnut k's a couple years ago for significantly less.
Taketheflame
Super Member
I have nothing but anecdotal evidence to go off of, as opposed to true data analysis, but I have seen mixed signals in my local market.
Someone did list a ton of nice gear for great prices in my area, but I haven't been checking back on it to see what's sold and what hasn't.
Meanwhile, Marantz prices still seem out of control, and anything desirable in tip-top shape still seems to sell fairly quickly online, as long as the price isn't totally out of line (in which case it just sits for months - or some examples I've seen sit for over a year).
Without getting too into broader macroeconomic stuff in the US, I do think the end of pandemic restrictions and federal interest rate policy (along w/the state of inflation) is starting to put a damper on prices of collectibles. 2020-2022 price growth really was a perfect storm scenario IMO.
I don't see an outright price crash happening, but more of a modest correction as the likely outcome - at least with desirable gear.
Someone did list a ton of nice gear for great prices in my area, but I haven't been checking back on it to see what's sold and what hasn't.
Meanwhile, Marantz prices still seem out of control, and anything desirable in tip-top shape still seems to sell fairly quickly online, as long as the price isn't totally out of line (in which case it just sits for months - or some examples I've seen sit for over a year).
Without getting too into broader macroeconomic stuff in the US, I do think the end of pandemic restrictions and federal interest rate policy (along w/the state of inflation) is starting to put a damper on prices of collectibles. 2020-2022 price growth really was a perfect storm scenario IMO.
I don't see an outright price crash happening, but more of a modest correction as the likely outcome - at least with desirable gear.