Tricks to Get Great Sound at Low Volume

[swechsler]

I think swechsler will be pleasantly surprised to learn that Yamaha amps still have Loudness knobs that are separate from the volume knob. The R-N600A is the least expensive one that has the feature.

That's good to know. Almost makes me wish I was in the market for a new amp.

 

[Sandman1221]

All I can suggest to improve SQ is an area carpet with pad underneath it, to fill the space between the speakers and listening position. GoodWill has ones for a reasonable amount, but they may not come with a pad, but if the carpet is thick enough a pad may not be needed, other than to keep if from moving, and carpet tape can do that.

 

[ProudArmyBra]

A pre-amp amp and amp should not attenuate anything they should pass the signal and amplify the signal. The point of a preamp is to allow you to adjust the volume on an amp that is not intergrated amp which would have the pre-amp built in.

mf mfff fffff are about how loud or how much energy you put in. When you play an instrument at a low dynamic your not attenuating anyting you are siply not putting in as much energy. The instruments resonates based on what freq you put in, how you adjust the tuning and how much energy you put in. On a hifi system the only thing you can really control is how much you twist the volum control and the rest of it is built into the loaud speaker and you have no control over.

I like loudness switch or knob but that is another story all together. Talk about pyschoacoustics "loudness" control on vintage amps is definietly in that wheel house! Great idea but largely misunderstood today!

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Well the good news is that it sounds pretty good, even great with the loudness. I'm shocked at the clarity and depth of sound given the room and the cost of the system all said and done. Had people bring LPs over for a spin once I got the system running and everyone was pleasantly surprised. But some boomier bass parts get a little excessive. Turning down the bass a bit helps and really gets the system right where it needs to be. Volume at preset (I measured what I thought would be a reasonable volume- 42db peak at the nearest shared wall), loudness on, and bass at -1, everything else at neutral really sounds quite good.

I have the speakers set as far apart as they can without interfering with other stuff, and I'll start moving them out away from the wall when in use and practicing near field listening- my chair is already only like 8' away though.



Nothing has been said and my girlfriend thinks I'm being paranoid but I just have a really hard time getting into the music and enjoying it if I think I may be bothering someone. It becomes all I can think about instead of following the music.

This room is over our garage and shares no walls. We are on the second floor so this room is completely isolated from any neighbors, which is why we chose it as the music room. I think the walls are pretty thick- the only time I hear any neighbors is when the toddler next door is scream-crying in the quietest hours of the late night/early morning. I figure that's around 80db or more pretty close to a shared wall. Never hear anyone's music, tv, or talking.

65db in the room comes out to about 45db at the nearest shared wall and that's probably the loudest I've had it- figured low 40s at the wall was a safe bet that nobody would hear it.

I can't tell if there is carpet on the floor or not.

If no carpet then I would take a piece of granite and place it on the floor under your stands. Use some squares of thin felt (2mm max) under the corners of the granite to minimize scratching the floor. The felt will compress pretty hard and thin, so you won't loose the solid contact that you are looking for. Then add spikes to the bottom of your stands. Take another piece of granite and put it on top of your speakers for mass loading, again with thin felt under it to avoid scratches.

If there is carpet then place the spikes under the granite so that is has a solid connection to the floor.

The result will be tighter bass and better overall clarity without propagating directly into the floor to minimize vibrations going to your neighbors.

I would turn that bookshelf 90° and put books with widely different depths in the 2 shelves directly next to the speakers. The books will act as diffusers and lessen the interaction with that wall/bookshelf. Perhaps line the back wall of the bookshelf with some acoustic foam behind the books.

,
James

 

[ernieb1536]

I find that loudness helps to flesh out the sound a lot at low volume, but I feel like that may be a bit of a band-aid. I’d like it to sound great straight from the source as well.

Are there any general tricks to achieving a full but detailed sound at low volume? I live in a condo and try to always be cognizant of my neighbors.

Looking for general tips to use on any system, but anything specific to my condo setup could help too, as low volume listening is the biggest consideration here.

My setup is: Elac ub51 bookshelf speakers on 28” stands
Akai- AA5810 integrated amp
Dual 1245 and Fluance RT81+ turntables
Denon DCD 590 cd player
In a small 10.5’x10.5’ room (haven’t gotten to decorate yet)
View attachment 3417588

Love my model 26 Cerwin Vegas big full sound at low levels ! Can get loud as well but low to mid levels they shine ! Their a rare beast made in 1976 the model 26 stands for 2 way speaker 60 watts rms ! Run them with my realistic sta2080 rated at 80 wpc with loudness on bass at 2 o’clock mid at 4 treble at 3 . Will fill a room with nice sound between 2-5 watts

 

[ernieb1536]

Love my model 26 Cerwin Vegas big full sound at low levels ! Can get loud as well but low to mid levels they shine ! Their a rare beast made in 1976 the model 26 stands for 2 way speaker 60 watts rms ! Run them with my realistic sta2080 rated at 80 wpc with loudness on bass at 2 o’clock mid at 4 treble at 3 . Will fill a room with nice sound between 2-5 watts

Bass on drift away by Dobbie Gray will put a big smile on any bass lovers face ! Vocals are good as well !

 

[twiiii]

Sometimes having a loudness control helps a great deal if calibrated properly. Having the correct speakers with the correct directivity index for the size of room and the acoustic of the room is important, too. I have always had speakers that would be considered directional, so listening at low levels was always enjoyable for me 90+ % of the time. Speakers with fast woofers that have very low harmonic distortion helps, too. Our ears are not linear and depending how we treated our ears and how we heard things as we matured also effects our enjoyment threashold at quieter listening levels. Right now an hour before dawn everything is very quiet and is a great time to listen to music critically at lower levels because the signal to noise ratio is the the best it can be. Remember we can listen into noise. So even though my noise level meter says the noise in my room is at 28 db A weighted slow response I am sure in the important midrange frequencies the noise is much lower and would allow me to hear small details at very relaxing sound levels. Having a very smooth frequency response helps to for me. Some folks prefer a bit of a roll off in the bass which can sometimes mask midrange and lower midrange sounds. Others prefer a bit of a lower midrange boost which emphasizes reverberant sounds of some classical recordings and concerts of all types recorded live. If you are using your surround system you don't need as much rear and side levels it seems to me when you are not being assaulted by the front channels. Quiet time is a great time to listen to musicals. Brigadoon or the Sound of Music for instance. I also enjoy watching Russian Ballet companies when it quieter so I can concentrate on the dance with out being overly saturated with sound. Some times its fun to listen at concert levels where you can feel the bass of a Classical Pipe organ or a well tuned bass drum or Tympani. But it also great to listen at a quieter level too, so loud cymbal crashes or other percussive sounds don't cover the music.

Our ears are not linear devices, so what hear at loud levels and perceive at those levels can be totally different at much lower levels. Remember our ears have their own mechanical limiters and compressors built in, too. So we maybe compromising the actual sound of the performance with the levels turned up to high. At the same time at low levels our ears roll off the bass So we can hear the important midrange frequencies and our ears are capable of having the best directional senses of our hearing.

 

[Gigantic]

I find that loudness helps to flesh out the sound a lot at low volume, but I feel like that may be a bit of a band-aid. I’d like it to sound great straight from the source as well.

Are there any general tricks to achieving a full but detailed sound at low volume? I live in a condo and try to always be cognizant of my neighbors.

Looking for general tips to use on any system, but anything specific to my condo setup could help too, as low volume listening is the biggest consideration here.

My setup is: Elac ub51 bookshelf speakers on 28” stands
Akai- AA5810 integrated amp
Dual 1245 and Fluance RT81+ turntables
Denon DCD 590 cd player
In a small 10.5’x10.5’ room (haven’t gotten to decorate yet)
View attachment 3417588

you may find that a small subwoofer may help at lower volumes.

 

[hobby]

Wow, lots of great info already!

 

[Mike_S]

Well the good news is that it sounds pretty good, even great with the loudness. I'm shocked at the clarity and depth of sound given the room and the cost of the system all said and done. Had people bring LPs over for a spin once I got the system running and everyone was pleasantly surprised. But some boomier bass parts get a little excessive. Turning down the bass a bit helps and really gets the system right where it needs to be. Volume at preset (I measured what I thought would be a reasonable volume- 42db peak at the nearest shared wall), loudness on, and bass at -1, everything else at neutral really sounds quite good.

I have the speakers set as far apart as they can without interfering with other stuff, and I'll start moving them out away from the wall when in use and practicing near field listening- my chair is already only like 8' away though.



Nothing has been said and my girlfriend thinks I'm being paranoid but I just have a really hard time getting into the music and enjoying it if I think I may be bothering someone. It becomes all I can think about instead of following the music.

This room is over our garage and shares no walls. We are on the second floor so this room is completely isolated from any neighbors, which is why we chose it as the music room. I think the walls are pretty thick- the only time I hear any neighbors is when the toddler next door is scream-crying in the quietest hours of the late night/early morning. I figure that's around 80db or more pretty close to a shared wall. Never hear anyone's music, tv, or talking.

65db in the room comes out to about 45db at the nearest shared wall and that's probably the loudest I've had it- figured low 40s at the wall was a safe bet that nobody would hear it.

Really this is a "you" problem, and not a real problem. I totally agree with your girlfriend.

FWIW, a screaming toddler is over 100db, I've measured my GF's 3yo in a tantrum.

Without any shared walls, you can listen at normal volumes without any issues. 80-90db should not bother anyone. Really, since you are so concerned about it. Turn up your system, ask if you can listen to it from your neighbors house, or at least listen to it at a shared wall. Bass is really the only thing that travels through solid walls. With your amps power, and speaker size, you would have to have it at really high volume level to bother anyone outside the room.

65db is not really soft listening, it's about normal background levels.

 

[Capitol C]

It isn't possible without loudness compensation, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour.

 

[hobby]

I can't tell if there is carpet on the floor or not.

If no carpet then I would take a piece of granite and place it on the floor under your stands. Use some squares of thin felt (2mm max) under the corners of the granite to minimize scratching the floor. The felt will compress pretty hard and thin, so you won't loose the solid contact that you are looking for. Then add spikes to the bottom of your stands. Take another piece of granite and put it on top of your speakers for mass loading, again with thin felt under it to avoid scratches.

If there is carpet then place the spikes under the granite so that is has a solid connection to the floor.

The result will be tighter bass and better overall clarity without propagating directly into the floor to minimize vibrations going to your neighbors.

I would turn that bookshelf 90° and put books with widely different depths in the 2 shelves directly next to the speakers. The books will act as diffusers and lessen the interaction with that wall/bookshelf. Perhaps line the back wall of the bookshelf with some acoustic foam behind the books.

,
James

Really great ideas James, thanks.

It is wall to wall carpet and I’m shopping for a shag area rug to go under the whole rack/speaker area. I’ll see if I can scrape up some granite cutoffs to use from a local contractor.

 

[hobby]

Really this is a "you" problem, and not a real problem. I totally agree with your girlfriend.

FWIW, a screaming toddler is over 100db, I've measured my GF's 3yo in a tantrum.

Without any shared walls, you can listen at normal volumes without any issues. 80-90db should not bother anyone. Really, since you are so concerned about it. Turn up your system, ask if you can listen to it from your neighbors house, or at least listen to it at a shared wall. Bass is really the only thing that travels through solid walls. With your amps power, and speaker size, you would have to have it at really high volume level to bother anyone outside the room.

65db is not really soft listening, it's about normal background levels.

Thanks for the reassurance, I just hate when people are inconsiderate to me, so I try to make sure I’m not that way to others. You know?

I’ll feel a lot safer at my max 65db, which is plenty loud for the room anyways and won’t be too scared to bump it even higher on occasion.

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Really great ideas James, thanks.

It is wall to wall carpet and I’m shopping for a shag area rug to go under the whole rack/speaker area. I’ll see if I can scrape up some granite cutoffs to use from a local contractor.

In that case you would need some spikes to mount under the granite that can plant it solidly on the floor. Seems counter intuitive in some was concerning noise abatement but the granite and spikes really limit what can be directly coupled with the floor and at the same time give the speakers a solid mount.

I used to put hard rubber pads under my speakers to limit noise going down to the neighbors but learned that leaving the speakers on such a flexible base smeared the sound. I appreciate your concern for your neighbors, I feel the same way. I keep in regular contact with mine and they all say that they hear nothing from my system, even when I get it up to somewhat spirited levels.


These are a bit larger than your speakers but at least it illustrates the concept.
,
James

 

[RunOutGroove]

Good rec too- I have Kef MU7s that I like well enough, but find myself preferring speakers. I didn't know open back designs were a thing, that may provide more of the open atmosphere I like in speakers. Thanks

I looked up those phones and they seem to be more of what I would consider a "convenience model" rather than an out and out home listening, hi-fi type of headphone. I think that you might find the difference between what you have and something made more for home listening pretty dramatic. Of the two the I have, I would recommend the HiFiMan Sundara, which I got used for $200, though they seem to go on sale new for not much more than that. They're really detailed and open sounding, at least compared with the Sennheiser HD6xx (which are a bit cheaper), with the Sennheisers being a bit warmer/smoother sounding, which can be nice as well.

One thing to consider is your amp. I might ask around here about the headphone output of that amp, particularly if you go for a headphone like the Sundara (or pretty much any with the same kind of planar magnetic driver design) as these things take a lot of juice and not every built-in headphone output is going to be adequate to make these things really come alive. I bought a pretty nice, more than powerful enough headphone amp, A Gustard h10, which again, I was able to find used for cheap, though I have to admit that with my vintage amp, a Marantz 2270 receiver, the headphone out on it is good enough that the improvement with the dedicated headphone amp isn't dramatic. It's the kind of difference, or lack thereof, which unfortunately isn't really apparent until you're able to get the thing home and compare.

I'm lucky that I don't have neighbors that are bothered by my music (it helps that the side of my house with the listening room is separated by the width of two driveways), but even though I have the luxury of being able to play my music fairly loud at about any time, sometimes I like to do a headphone session. I find that I get different things from the music with the headphones...

 

[hobby]

In that case you would need some spikes to mount under the granite that can plant it solidly on the floor. Seems counter intuitive in some was concerning noise abatement but the granite and spikes really limit what can be directly coupled with the floor and at the same time give the speakers a solid mount.

I used to put hard rubber pads under my speakers to limit noise going down to the neighbors but learned that leaving the speakers on such a flexible base smeared the sound. I appreciate your concern for your neighbors, I feel the same way. I keep in regular contact with mine and they all say that they hear nothing from my system, even when I get it up to somewhat spirited levels.

View attachment 3418342View attachment 3418343View attachment 3418344
These are a bit larger than your speakers but at least it illustrates the concept.
,
James

Thanks for the pics and the details! Also a big brat eater by the way, good stuff.

 

[hobby]

I looked up those phones and they seem to be more of what I would consider a "convenience model" rather than an out and out home listening, hi-fi type of headphone. I think that you might find the difference between what you have and something made more for home listening pretty dramatic. Of the two the I have, I would recommend the HiFiMan Sundara, which I got used for $200, though they seem to go on sale new for not much more than that. They're really detailed and open sounding, at least compared with the Sennheiser HD6xx (which are a bit cheaper), with the Sennheisers being a bit warmer/smoother sounding, which can be nice as well.

One thing to consider is your amp. I might ask around here about the headphone output of that amp, particularly if you go for a headphone like the Sundara (or pretty much any with the same kind of planar magnetic driver design) as these things take a lot of juice and not every built-in headphone output is going to be adequate to make these things really come alive. I bought a pretty nice, more than powerful enough headphone amp, A Gustard h10, which again, I was able to find used for cheap, though I have to admit that with my vintage amp, a Marantz 2270 receiver, the headphone out on it is good enough that the improvement with the dedicated headphone amp isn't dramatic. It's the kind of difference, or lack thereof, which unfortunately isn't really apparent until you're able to get the thing home and compare.

I'm lucky that I don't have neighbors that are bothered by my music (it helps that the side of my house with the listening room is separated by the width of two driveways), but even though I have the luxury of being able to play my music fairly loud at about any time, sometimes I like to do a headphone session. I find that I get different things from the music with the headphones...

Yeah, I like the phones in some situations too. I’ll check those HiFiMans out. I’d definitely like a really good headphone setup at some point anyways.

 

[Bratwurst7s]

I looked up those phones and they seem to be more of what I would consider a "convenience model" rather than an out and out home listening, hi-fi type of headphone. I think that you might find the difference between what you have and something made more for home listening pretty dramatic. Of the two the I have, I would recommend the HiFiMan Sundara, which I got used for $200, though they seem to go on sale new for not much more than that. They're really detailed and open sounding, at least compared with the Sennheiser HD6xx (which are a bit cheaper), with the Sennheisers being a bit warmer/smoother sounding, which can be nice as well.

One thing to consider is your amp. I might ask around here about the headphone output of that amp, particularly if you go for a headphone like the Sundara (or pretty much any with the same kind of planar magnetic driver design) as these things take a lot of juice and not every built-in headphone output is going to be adequate to make these things really come alive. I bought a pretty nice, more than powerful enough headphone amp, A Gustard h10, which again, I was able to find used for cheap, though I have to admit that with my vintage amp, a Marantz 2270 receiver, the headphone out on it is good enough that the improvement with the dedicated headphone amp isn't dramatic. It's the kind of difference, or lack thereof, which unfortunately isn't really apparent until you're able to get the thing home and compare.

I'm lucky that I don't have neighbors that are bothered by my music (it helps that the side of my house with the listening room is separated by the width of two driveways), but even though I have the luxury of being able to play my music fairly loud at about any time, sometimes I like to do a headphone session. I find that I get different things from the music with the headphones...

Good advice.

I have the HiFiMan Edition XS powered by a FiiO K7 and they are the best phones that I have ever had since 1972.

It is a different listening experience than the big system, but very enjoyable in it's own right and perfect for late nights when I want some good music without bothering everyone else.

,
James

 

[Sandman1221]

I have some older B&O over the ear, closed back, wired headphones. Sound great. They have real leather ear cups with breathable mesh fabric on the inside where it does not contact your ear, and that really makes them comfortable and cool. Synthetic leather ear cups made my ears get hot. Maybe there are ear cups that are all fabric.

 

[Mike_S]

Thanks for the reassurance, I just hate when people are inconsiderate to me, so I try to make sure I’m not that way to others. You know?

I’ll feel a lot safer at my max 65db, which is plenty loud for the room anyways and won’t be too scared to bump it even higher on occasion.

65db is normal conversation volume, you can bump it up a but more without issue. Think 70-80db range will not bother anyone is a lot of volume for that space. Say do 65db before 11am, then bump it up till 9pm, going back to 65db.

Yes, I get it, I live my life by the motto "don't be an A-Hole". However, I also want to live my life, be able to enjoy things I love. Being considerate is a good thing, but it should not limit you in what you enjoy. Basically, find the balance. A simple conversation with the neighbor will set this all straight, without the guess work.

Personally hate headphones, especially corded ones. Think it's from my teen years, having my parents forcing me to use them. Really good ones are as expensive as decent speakers.