Tried cartridge alignment methods on Technics 1200 mk2

[omishra]

I tried both Technics overhang tool and two point protractors.

I have 2 Cartridges - Denon DL-110 and Shure M97xe. I was reading about cartridge alignment since I built my Pearl 2 Phono stage. I used Shure's Stock Protractor (Baerwald two point) for alignment of both the carts. I was not happy with the thin sound from DL-110 and muddy sound from 97xe.

Please note cart loadings are always kept to correct values of respective carts: 97xe -> 47KΩ parallel with total 250pF and DL-110 with 47KΩ without using provided spacer cum weight. Also correct VTA was maintained for each of them.

Approach 1: Started with Baerwald Protractor.

M97xe realigned and VTA set correctly. Removed headshell and measured it on Technics overhang tool. Now stylus tip is approx 2mm farther than specified 52mm on Technics Tool. Also Cart body skewed (Clockwise), cantilever pointed towards spindal. This sounded nice but still less stereo separation and like AM Radio.

DL-110 realigned in the same way and VTA set correctly. Same results as above but more stereo separation and crisp HF. Still this sounded thin.

Approach 2: Used Stevenson protractor.

Both carts realigned and now carts moved inside. Again measured ~52mm on Technics overhang tool with same settings. This means tool's 52mm matched with Stevenson's protractor. Still this has little IGD and sibilance.

Approach 3: Used Technics Overhang Tool.

Both carts realigned for body parallel to headshell. Measured correct 52mm on overhang tool. This time both sounded best of their ability. This made me happy.

For approach 2 and 3, I tweaked for VTF and antiskate. For 97xe it was happy with 1.4gms on both and for DL-110 it was best for 1.75gm for both.

Observations:

Though approach 2 and 3 are looking same, why approach 3 produced accurate result? May be because - I could use another SS scale as a helper tool to make carts body parallel to headshell. Earlier in approach 2, I was dependent on my eyesight and error prone parallax method of visual inspection. Approach 3 was less error prone (IMO).

Apart from full bodied sound, another difference I noticed - same record playing after approach 1, popped up cone more for edges of records till middle. This was not reproduced after approach 2 and 3. Means there was some relation of tonearm resonance which was producing subsonic signal after approach 1, difference than suggested overhang. With Technics' recommended settings this tonearm behaved best in terms of speaker cone popping out.

Just to share my observations. Thanks!

 

[catman]

G'day mate, your observations are interesting if somewhat at odds with my own observations! I have set up the M97xE on quite a few different tonearms/turntables using the Shure supplied 'Baerwald' two point protractor using the approach as described in here http://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/vinyl07.html with consistent and excellent results (every time).

As noted, Baerwald overhang alignment does push the stylus point a little further ahead. I also used the same protractor to optimise the cantilever alignment to be parallel at both null points (offset angle).

On the Technics device, I seem to recall others having no real success when using it. Perhaps all this seems to indicate that setting cartridge overhang/alignment is still something of a 'black art'. Regards, Felix aka catman.

 

[omishra]

For M97xe with Baerwald protractor, it was very marginal difference between approaches 2 & 3. But that speaker cone popping was not visible after approach 2 & 3. Still I could not understand what could be the reason for the subsonic if everything else remained same except setting.

Yes, using that Technics overhang tool is not that easy. But use of straight edge ruler to align cart body and headshell at parallel helped a lot.

 

[catman]

G'day mate, yes I think it all comes down to accuracy in measurement. I have to use a magnifying helmet as my eyes alone are simply no longer good enough for the job. Regards, Felix aka catman.

 

[WaynerN]

I have mine in the Lofgren B alignment.

Wayner

 

[ConradH]

There are so many aspects to this, and one can't forget the cartridge construction. If you align the body, where's the cantilever? How well did they get the diamond aligned to the cantilever. How does the magnetic structure line up with everything else? I don't have any magic answer, but it may explain some of the variations people see.

If you align the body I've seen a trick where people use double stick tape to put a mechanical pencil lead on the front of the cartridge. That's way easier to line up to a grid than the body edges, which may not be easily visible. There are some optical illusions that make precise alignment of the body harder than most people realize.

IMO, overhang is good if the manufacturer understood tone arm geometry, if the manufacturing tolerances were tight, and if nothing has shrunk over the years. An overhang gage is an easy way to get close, but a poor way to verify that the alignment is actually where you want it.

A 2-point template combined with an overhang gage is probably very close, but only if the overhang is correct for the desired alignment.

Download the free arc template generator from my site and you can easily verify the accuracy of your methods. Be sure to read the readme file. If you can trace the arc and the cartridge lines up with one grid, you'll be aligned with better accuracy than most other methods.

Will that be the best alignment? Depends on the things mentioned above!

Template gen program here.

 

[andylsun]

I used to use Approach 3 (overhang tool) with my M97XE and was always disappointed. IGD and not good sound. I switched to Approach 1 (which was quite an adjustment, stylus further forward and twisted inwards) and thought it sounded much cleaner.

 

[elcoholic]

This is a game of 10ths of millimeters. Most all optical methods of alignment are subject to error because of viewing angle or misalignment of the cantilever. This was my solution. Total production to date about is 60 units all purchased by happy AKr's on Bartertown. Lofgren B, Lofgren A (Baerwald) and Stevenson have their advantages. I'm not a proponent of either geometry and use both. These are out of production for the time being (other priorities). I recently had a discussion with a gentleman here with failing eye site and he would be unable to use my protractor. That got me thinking about a new variation using a USB scope which would be useful for poor eye site as well as consoles and similar installations where the needed line of site isn't available. I'll probably start tinkering with that after I get a few other projects completed.

 

[ChairSpud]

Thanks for sharing your observations Omishra. I always start with the alignment method recommended by the turntable mfg, those I've found usually sound best to me. It is fun to experiment and nothing says you can't try alternative null points as long as physical limitations don't prevent it.

Dave/ChairSpud

 

[dynamic73]

For me and I know a lot of others. Cartridge alignment is the hardest part of setting up a turntable. Then with failing eye sight at an older age. Alignment becomes even more frustrating. I know there's got to be a better way. I found a way that works on my Yamaha turntable but worry about the day. When I up grade to another turntable. Will I be able to get the next one aligned just right. Elcoholic I'll be very interested in seeing your project. When it come to fruition.

 

[Garven]

Just a question out of curiosity. I read in several places around the net that achieving a true Baerwald/Lofgren A alignment with an SL-1200 is impossible using the standard Technics headshell (a Lofgren B would be even harder to reach). Are you folks using one of the custom headshells around?

I don't currently have an SL-1200 but eventually plan to buy one when I see a decent deal locally. I've always considered that I'd either have to live with a Stevenson alignment on it or buy a custom headshell. I know with my Xpression II and my old 2M Black, a Stevenson just didn't sound good at all. I currently have an OC9-ML/II that fortunately has a long enough cantilever for me to just reach a Baerwald IEC arc. I think it would probably track a Stevenson alignment better, but I'm just curious about your experiences.

 

[dodog]

I've had the exact same experience as you Omishra. FWIW, I didn't use a 1200 but have tried this on a 1300, 1360 and 1400. Baerwald never sounded right but the Technics jig, which was quite easy to use, sounded great.

 

[ChairSpud]

Just a question out of curiosity. I read in several places around the net that achieving a true Baerwald/Lofgren A alignment with an SL-1200 is impossible using the standard Technics headshell (a Lofgren B would be even harder to reach). Are you folks using one of the custom headshells around?

I don't currently have an SL-1200 but eventually plan to buy one when I see a decent deal locally. I've always considered that I'd either have to live with a Stevenson alignment on it or buy a custom headshell. I know with my Xpression II and my old 2M Black, a Stevenson just didn't sound good at all. I currently have an OC9-ML/II that fortunately has a long enough cantilever for me to just reach a Baerwald IEC arc. I think it would probably track a Stevenson alignment better, but I'm just curious about your experiences.

With the standard Technics headshell I have used a DB Systems Baerwald protractor to successfully align a number cartridges but sorry have not tried the 2M or OC9.

Dave/ChairSpud

 

[dumptruck]

The 2M series can't reach Baerwald on the Technics headshell, unless I totally botched it when I checked somehow, don't think so though.

 

[Garven]

The 2M series can't reach Baerwald on the Technics headshell, unless I totally botched it when I checked somehow, don't think so though.

No you probably didn't. I had a 2M Bronze that I upgraded to a 2M Black. with both styli, the tip of the stylus barely reached 218mm on my Project Xpression II (200mm pivot to spindle). I was thinking of trying a Dyna 10x5, but measurements I saw online showed it to have less distance between the mounting holes and tip than the 2Ms so I figured it'd be worse than the 2Ms. The Denon DL110 also seems to have less distance. Mind you, the measurements in an online OC9 manual showed it to be about the same as the 2Ms but when I mounted it, the stylus tip actually reached a full Baerwald at 219mm!

The advantage of the SL-1200 et al would be the ability to add a custom headshell like a Jelco or LPgear Zupreme that would allow even the cartridges with shorter stylus tip to mounting hole distance to reach Baerwald/Löfgren A or even Löfgren B.

 

[Garven]

With the standard Technics headshell I have used a DB Systems Baerwald protractor to successfully align a number cartridges but sorry have not tried the 2M or OC9.

Dave/ChairSpud

I see the OM20 in your signature, did that line up ok? I ask because I have an old OM20 Super at home, just needs a new stylus at some point. One reason I want to pick up an SL-1200 is the ability to switch cartridges easily.

 

[jsisk]

I thought the whole point of the Technics S-arm and overhang gauge was to eliminate the need for protractors and trial and error. Worked for every cartridge I have tried on my Technics over the last 30+ years.

 

[ChairSpud]

I see the OM20 in your signature, did that line up ok? I ask because I have an old OM20 Super at home, just needs a new stylus at some point. One reason I want to pick up an SL-1200 is the ability to switch cartridges easily.

Sorry its been four years since I did Baerwald on the Technics and I can't honestly remember now if I tried the OM.

Good choice, when I want to try different cartridges the SL1200mk2 is the table I use, the ease of changing cartridges and arm height along with the Technics alignment tool make it a pleasure to use.

Dave/ChairSpud

 

[illini]

Approach 3: Used Technics Overhang Tool.
Both carts realigned for body parallel to headshell. Measured correct 52mm on overhang tool. This time both sounded best of their ability. This made me happy.

Me too!

Btw, have you modded more Technics tonearms since that one thread?

 

[rolltide]

I see the OM20 in your signature, did that line up ok? I ask because I have an old OM20 Super at home, just needs a new stylus at some point. One reason I want to pick up an SL-1200 is the ability to switch cartridges easily.

Not sure if it answers your specific question, but I set up an OM20 this past weekend with the technics jig with great success.